Using your credit card to ride cross country? Get ready for a shock

the Ferret

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Latest update. Another declined charge from a location too far out there to be mine. Then. A gas charge too large to be for my bike. $16.00. Too low for our car. Then $75 again. We as a family are no longer using our bank card for gas purchases. Things have gotten out of hand with the bank auto locking our card and sending suspicious charge texts.

We may stop using that card altogether.
GOOD PLAN!
 

Makingitwork6999

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And the late late late update. My card is now surely stolen at a gas pump. Thieves use the pending charge game. They know what each gas station charges on pending. Then they pump a penny or two either way. A penny short or a penny high says they fat fingered the pump or were too drunk to stop it in time because they knew they might soon be caught. $74 or $75 at a time. $99 or $100 at a time. $900 stolen. My bank had no way to protect us because it all looks the same. The pending charge game is a mess.
 

Makingitwork6999

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I will make it clear when i am just joking.

But i did spin a story about a talking pump that seizes your card to tell you it was over charging you. Only to keep talking long after you left.

Pumps don’t do that. This is still science fiction. That was for entertainment purposes only. But we are not that far off from that absurdity today. Soon, they will talk to you and tell you they are overcharging you. The writing is on the wall. This is coming. Anybody ever been to Tokyo??

But pumps will secretly overcharge you even when your card is declined. This much is clear.

The point is. Pumps rarely tell you about that $100 or $75 charge. Reading the thread today, we learned that it can happen. I will give it rarely. The pump did tell someone it was charging them a pending or deposit fee.

Now I am learning about the card penny up penny down variance in pending issue. This is a warning sign of theft.

My bank had no way to tell. They told me after several calls that there were swipe tine stamps on their records. The thieves slipped up today. And pumped too far from my house. The transaction "swiped" status and time stamp said... my card was stolen. Someone was not telling me what was important at the bank.
 
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Makingitwork6999

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So…. Now. What to do about it.

Use No-touch cards. Or if needed, swipe inside the store. Cash is king, yes. But a lot of us don’t carry cash.

use your E-card. My bank is replacing my E-card on Apple pay today. The physical card comes 3 days later.

Now i must go online for three hours to update my cyclic payments such as my Disney channel (gotta watch Loki) and all my security and ani virus stuff. Wow. So much work. I keep a list of logins and passwords as I am an advanced IT expert. It is taped under my toilet tank.
 

Makingitwork6999

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Personally, my favorite spin earlier in the thread was the prairie dog vacuum. I do not often laugh at my own jokes… but yeah. That was funny.
 

Makingitwork6999

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My e-wallet was updated in 60 Minutes from the time I confirmed the theft and called the bank. This can save your butt when on a bike after your card is stolen.
 
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Makingitwork6999

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OK so I’m sure lots of you have questions about why you should move to E-cards and tap cards and things like that. Why apple pay and samsung pay phone wallets and all that weird stuff?

I mean? Wow! Right? That chip and picture of my face on my card is supposed to protect my credit card. No. All the data someone needs to steal your card is still in the magnetic strip. It is old tech. The rest is a feel-good program. Like the way airports take away your deodorant after smelling it.

First of all. Professional crooks exploit the easy way in or out. The first thing you should know is that the credit card number you have is the single biggest flaw and security problem with a credit card. The number is way too small. The first sets of digits can often be guessed by somebody else. Then the rest of the digits are something someone can simply make up and start to use.

In the old days people would simply take a carbon copy of your card and then make a funny card with the embossed numbers on it. Now they make paper cards with magnetic strips that have your data on them. And finally, they transmit your data online to the third world like India or Africa or New Jersey.

Debit only cars give you one extra layer of protection. The PIN must be known. But... the bad guys install pinhole cameras for that. All this spy stuff can be purchased on-line, and built in a garage. Yes. There are nerdy people who do exactly this.

When using an e-card or phone-based card, there is special set of one-time-use codes used. It is just enough data to process the transaction once. The thieves for now cannot re-use anything they capture. So you use it once, you get charged once.

Until the bad guys hack the transaction middle-men, this is fairly safe. Has this happened before? Actually yes. But this might take some work and some time. People have hacked transaction processors to steal as much money as possible. Hackers have hacked the basic software that many people use for everyday desktop computers. When businesses updated their PCs for security purposes, they downloaded the hacked versions. This is why I never shop at Target, and I won't get a Home Depot program card. Can you tell I read a lot? I have watched a lot of people steal stuff to learn how to stop them. I read earth-shaking stuff... because that sort of thing actually happens these days.

What about the expiration date, or the ZIP Code? Not everyone validates this.

Requirements are not enforced. I know because I’ve purchased plenty of gas at plenty of gas stations in the past month.

When a gas pump is hacked, most of the time the bad guys are only trying to read the magnetic strip. Once they have the magnetic strip and the data on it, they have your card. Debit cards aside, this is why hacking a gas pump is very easy. The door lock is usually a simple pinball machine lock, and there is rarely if ever an alarm on the pump. The cameras are often too fuzzy to record anybody’s face, so the bad guys simply drive away and hope for the best. Locks and cameras vary, but you are talking to a guy with cameras all over his property. I see everything... and things I do not want to see. It is never helpful.

I watch people crack locks all day when I am bored. It is never that hard. Security is what you think it is. Like in the action movies, things are breakable.

Bad Guy habits: They will often try to pump as much as they can nearby and they will try to use gas stations they know because they know what the pending charges will be. This is how they got me. Not even the store owner was willing to debate the insane fees on my e-mail. He was oblivious. I tried. All the data I got was wrong to say.. this is really a warning sign.

So where do the bad guys really get me, you ask? It is anywhere that I insert my card into a slut slut slut dammit slot at a POS system. Like a pump. I hate phone dictation!!!

Tap cards are extremely dangerous in airports. If you really must fly, try wrapping your card in tin foil or wear it high on your chest. Make sure that your e-card on your phone uses a pass code or a fingerprint. A crowded airport bus or queue will be where you typically get your tap card stolen. The biggest airports are where cards are stolen every day.

In my case, it is the frequency of my motorcycle rides and the number of times I fill up that caused my problem.

It is safe to say that I am on my motorcycle as much as anyone. I am on the highway and I am in the dirt and I always need to fill up.

So to all my friends out there and people who watch my blogging because I am so funny that people drop their cell phone in the toilet, stay safe. At least near small bodies of water.

If you want to be comfortable in the modern world, the first thing you should know is that every day of your life your credit card is not safe. Your smart phone is your safety net. If you need to, set up your own mailbox specifically for your credit cards. You might even want to set up this email as a VIP email. When your bank texts you about potential fraud, set this up as a VIP text. Have your phone play a very loud tune, or at least the soundtrack from Spaceballs during the emergency self-destruct evacuation.

Be safe my friends. Your bank should refund every dollar. Why? Because credit cards are not safe. Ever. Really. That is the reason.

 
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Floowid

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After the gas purchase, the $151 will be removed, and the actual purchase price will be on your account. As for the text you got, this is an example of the system working just as it should. The fraud protection flagged the card swipe as suspicious, and gave you an immediate opportunity to confirm or deny if it was you actually using the card. I’d say the fraud system then really broke down when it allowed you to buy gas at Sinclair after you had just indicated that you had not made a purchase attempt at Pilot.

I have never had a problem with charges from Pilot/FlyingJ, and I use them a lot because I get a discount on gas there. The 3 day hold must be just talk because I’ve not seen the hold, if used, last more than a few minutes on the times I checked it. But, I can understand if you’d no longer want to shop there.

Some credit cards pay back 4-5% on fuel purchases, so it can be financially beneficial to buy gas with such a credit card.
I have no problem with my credit union flagging the purchase as fraud. It felt like fraud to me, at least close enough. I understand what Pilot is doing. It is the wrong thing. When you fight fraud by passing the problem on to your consumers you are doing it the wrong way. Holding that much money for any amount of time to protect an $8 gas purchase is very anti-consumer. As a consumer I take that personally. I will say I have not seen that charge when I have fueled up at a local FlyingJ, and this could be because I was an out of state card. I also assume since you are using a FlyingJ card or bank card registered through them for a discount you are spared the anti-fraud measure of taking your money hostage. Exxon did something like this to my son a couple years ago. At the time he was a starving college student, and Exxon tried to put an $80 hold on his card. He had about $50 in his account, and fueling his car takes no more than $35, but since they couldn't "hold on" to $80 he couldn't get gas there. Very anti-consumer, and we have skipped Exxon stations since. Add Pilot/FlyingJ to the list. We will continue to see anti-consumer measures that protect corporate interests like this unless we vote with our wallets.
 

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I have no problem with my credit union flagging the purchase as fraud. It felt like fraud to me, at least close enough. I understand what Pilot is doing. It is the wrong thing. When you fight fraud by passing the problem on to your consumers you are doing it the wrong way. Holding that much money for any amount of time to protect an $8 gas purchase is very anti-consumer. As a consumer I take that personally. I will say I have not seen that charge when I have fueled up at a local FlyingJ, and this could be because I was an out of state card. I also assume since you are using a FlyingJ card or bank card registered through them for a discount you are spared the anti-fraud measure of taking your money hostage. Exxon did something like this to my son a couple years ago. At the time he was a starving college student, and Exxon tried to put an $80 hold on his card. He had about $50 in his account, and fueling his car takes no more than $35, but since they couldn't "hold on" to $80 he couldn't get gas there. Very anti-consumer, and we have skipped Exxon stations since. Add Pilot/FlyingJ to the list. We will continue to see anti-consumer measures that protect corporate interests like this unless we vote with our wallets.
You assumed wrong; I am not using a FlyingJ credit card or a card registered through them. The discount is separate from the payment method (I would get the same discount if I paid in cash). As far as the example $8 purchase goes, after the card is read and authorized but before sale is complete, the station does not know whether I am going to pump $8 or $140 worth of gas (yes, I could pump $140 into my motorhome). It's only fair that they put a temporary hold on the credit account for the maximum that they allow the pump to pump in one transaction. That way they know my account has a credit line good for the full potential amount of the purchase.

I guess if your funds were low, you could go inside and prepay for the exact total amount you intend to buy.
 

Makingitwork6999

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I have no problem with my credit union flagging the purchase as fraud. It felt like fraud to me, at least close enough. I understand what Pilot is doing. It is the wrong thing. When you fight fraud by passing the problem on to your consumers you are doing it the wrong way. Holding that much money for any amount of time to protect an $8 gas purchase is very anti-consumer. As a consumer I take that personally. I will say I have not seen that charge when I have fueled up at a local FlyingJ, and this could be because I was an out of state card. I also assume since you are using a FlyingJ card or bank card registered through them for a discount you are spared the anti-fraud measure of taking your money hostage. Exxon did something like this to my son a couple years ago. At the time he was a starving college student, and Exxon tried to put an $80 hold on his card. He had about $50 in his account, and fueling his car takes no more than $35, but since they couldn't "hold on" to $80 he couldn't get gas there. Very anti-consumer, and we have skipped Exxon stations since. Add Pilot/FlyingJ to the list. We will continue to see anti-consumer measures that protect corporate interests like this unless we vote with our wallets.
Damn straight. And it allows fraudsters to mimic such charges making the problem harder to identify early. Most consumer data does not reveal "swipe date and time" vs. "deposit charge date and time". A swipe is a definitive use of a stolen card if you still have it in your possession.

I got on my bank's case about this, because it took three tries for a support person to actually see it. Even a branch manager missed it.
 

Makingitwork6999

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You assumed wrong; I am not using a FlyingJ credit card or a card registered through them. The discount is separate from the payment method (I would get the same discount if I paid in cash). As far as the example $8 purchase goes, after the card is read and authorized but before sale is complete, the station does not know whether I am going to pump $8 or $140 worth of gas (yes, I could pump $140 into my motorhome). It's only fair that they put a temporary hold on the credit account for the maximum that they allow the pump to pump in one transaction. That way they know my account has a credit line good for the full potential amount of the purchase.

I guess if your funds were low, you could go inside and prepay for the exact total amount you intend to buy.
You could in some cases buy a candy bar with bank card cash back. It might cost you $5, but you will have the cash on hand. After you buy the candy, buy the gas. I know. This is a terrible way to deal with a bank holding your $100 hostage for $10 in gas.

Is this thread not riveting??? So much good stuff here.
 

Makingitwork6999

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One week after declaring my card stolen, my card went from just outside Dallas to Colorado City. People are still trying to use it.

My guess is the thieves do this for vacation gas or they are transient people who move around a lot.
They stay in town long enough to either steal cards or pass them off to people in their criminal circle.

They pumped a lot of gas on my card each time. 4 times at the same gas station. Over several days.

Enough to fill up a pickup truck with a spare tank. Several times
 

Makingitwork6999

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Oh… and to back up what i said earlier about no consistency in security requirements, my pest control people take a credit card number and an expiration date. That is it. Over the phone. No CVV. And the expiration date can be fudged. I did that a few times just to see if it worked. So there you go.

You only kinda sorta need an approximate 16 digit number to get a working credit card to make certain purchases. Usually over-the-phone. And this is how people fat-finger manually keyed credit card numbers.

Did they ever stop the people that stole my card? Nope. They were still at it a week later. After the card was cancelled.
 

Makingitwork6999

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OK so I’m sure lots of you have questions about why you should move to E-cards and tap cards and things like that. Why apple pay and samsung pay phone wallets and all that weird stuff?

I mean? Wow! Right? That chip and picture of my face on my card is supposed to protect my credit card. No. All the data someone needs to steal your card is still in the magnetic strip. It is old tech. The rest is a feel-good program. Like the way airports take away your deodorant after smelling it.

First of all. Professional crooks exploit the easy way in or out. The first thing you should know is that the credit card number you have is the single biggest flaw and security problem with a credit card. The number is way too small. The first sets of digits can often be guessed by somebody else. Then the rest of the digits are something someone can simply make up and start to use.

In the old days people would simply take a carbon copy of your card and then make a funny card with the embossed numbers on it. Now they make paper cards with magnetic strips that have your data on them. And finally, they transmit your data online to the third world like India or Africa or New Jersey.

Debit only cars give you one extra layer of protection. The PIN must be known. But... the bad guys install pinhole cameras for that. All this spy stuff can be purchased on-line, and built in a garage. Yes. There are nerdy people who do exactly this.

When using an e-card or phone-based card, there is special set of one-time-use codes used. It is just enough data to process the transaction once. The thieves for now cannot re-use anything they capture. So you use it once, you get charged once.

Until the bad guys hack the transaction middle-men, this is fairly safe. Has this happened before? Actually yes. But this might take some work and some time. People have hacked transaction processors to steal as much money as possible. Hackers have hacked the basic software that many people use for everyday desktop computers. When businesses updated their PCs for security purposes, they downloaded the hacked versions. This is why I never shop at Target, and I won't get a Home Depot program card. Can you tell I read a lot? I have watched a lot of people steal stuff to learn how to stop them. I read earth-shaking stuff... because that sort of thing actually happens these days.

What about the expiration date, or the ZIP Code? Not everyone validates this.

Requirements are not enforced. I know because I’ve purchased plenty of gas at plenty of gas stations in the past month.

When a gas pump is hacked, most of the time the bad guys are only trying to read the magnetic strip. Once they have the magnetic strip and the data on it, they have your card. Debit cards aside, this is why hacking a gas pump is very easy. The door lock is usually a simple pinball machine lock, and there is rarely if ever an alarm on the pump. The cameras are often too fuzzy to record anybody’s face, so the bad guys simply drive away and hope for the best. Locks and cameras vary, but you are talking to a guy with cameras all over his property. I see everything... and things I do not want to see. It is never helpful.

I watch people crack locks all day when I am bored. It is never that hard. Security is what you think it is. Like in the action movies, things are breakable.

Bad Guy habits: They will often try to pump as much as they can nearby and they will try to use gas stations they know because they know what the pending charges will be. This is how they got me. Not even the store owner was willing to debate the insane fees on my e-mail. He was oblivious. I tried. All the data I got was wrong to say.. this is really a warning sign.

So where do the bad guys really get me, you ask? It is anywhere that I insert my card into a slut slut slut dammit slot at a POS system. Like a pump. I hate phone dictation!!!

Tap cards are extremely dangerous in airports. If you really must fly, try wrapping your card in tin foil or wear it high on your chest. Make sure that your e-card on your phone uses a pass code or a fingerprint. A crowded airport bus or queue will be where you typically get your tap card stolen. The biggest airports are where cards are stolen every day.

In my case, it is the frequency of my motorcycle rides and the number of times I fill up that caused my problem.

It is safe to say that I am on my motorcycle as much as anyone. I am on the highway and I am in the dirt and I always need to fill up.

So to all my friends out there and people who watch my blogging because I am so funny that people drop their cell phone in the toilet, stay safe. At least near small bodies of water.

If you want to be comfortable in the modern world, the first thing you should know is that every day of your life your credit card is not safe. Your smart phone is your safety net. If you need to, set up your own mailbox specifically for your credit cards. You might even want to set up this email as a VIP email. When your bank texts you about potential fraud, set this up as a VIP text. Have your phone play a very loud tune, or at least the soundtrack from Spaceballs during the emergency self-destruct evacuation.

Be safe my friends. Your bank should refund every dollar. Why? Because credit cards are not safe. Ever. Really. That is the reason.

I just wanted to make a funny update. We got a series of paper letters from the bank today. The first couple I opened described two small credits. About $40 and $70. Then. I tore open two more to tell me that because of other credits, these credits were removed. Then i saw the letters for the other small credits. I have come to realize that there is no centralized account management. It is a bunch of people processing independent claims. 5 claims of fraud in total if I am right. Then i opened two more letters to see an $800 credit… only to be followed by a letter saying that the $800 was wrong and that $900 was credited and that this was somehow the final credit. Whatever that means. So. Welcome to modern banking where everyone works from home.
 

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I just wanted to make a funny update. We got a series of paper letters from the bank today
Just what banks or CC's are you using? I've used multiple banks in the last 50 years. I currently have accounts at Chase, Huntington and 5/3'rd. I have 3 CC's and 3 debt cards. I've never once experienced the problems that you claim to have. And yes, I do travel cross-country from time to time.

Please list your banking institutions and card holders so I can avoid them.
 

Makingitwork6999

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OK. I will say it once. But not in a searchable way. Wells Fargain.

That kinda explains it. Doesn’t it??

Yes. That word was stolen from “Johnny Dangerously”. I do watch movies. Remember the mobster who could not swear correctly???

I am hanging on to the stack of letters. So I can laugh at them. If i had opened them in reverse order, it would not have been nearly as entertaining.

I already knew they were giving me the full refund.

There were a lot of warning signs during the theft. They could have simply told me up front, that each transaction was a “swipe”. That would have been a dead giveaway to shut down the card sooner. Anybody who looked at my data carefully should have seen that.

After about a week of pump charges and phone calls to the bank and a personal visit to a branch, a nice lady on the phone at WF said, OMG, someone is cleaning you out at gas stations. You need to shut down your card now.

It was nice that someone could read the data and prove it. It was sad and laughable that they waited. Someone could have purchased a case of expensive wine and cheese from Europe and had it shipped to an abandoned “drop house”.

UPS at one point did this all the time and never stopped it. So it happens. I know it does. FedEx does it too.

So I am, in a way grateful. And I have new digital cards now. Way safer.

 
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Makingitwork6999

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There are actually seven relevant letters. Here is my photo blurred for privacy. I have included a kitty cat because this is the internet.
 

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Makingitwork6999

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A tangential statement: That is Deedee. My rescue cat. She had a broken leg at the animal shelter. She was very small for a kitten and limped badly. Nobody wanted her. She was the only one in the bunch who paid attention to us.

We thought she was brain damaged because she winks with both eyes and moves her ears independently. Then we caught her unscrewing the lid to her snack container and opening magnetic glass doors with full understanding of how they work. Whoh.
 
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