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They should not be charging you anything if the bike is still in warranty.......shady dealership....
Stalling issue
- Thread starter sanleandro_rider
- Start date
D
Deleted member 1183
This is amazing stuff. I have never encountered such behaviour from a dealer, but perhaps I have led a sheltered motorcycle life. What is being reported on here is getting Honda a bad reputationfor sure. I absolutely agree that there should be no fees for examination under warranty.
I think the general dealer attitude here is that the customer is wrong until proven right. The dealer probably gets no reimbursement from Honda if no warranty fault was uncovered. If the dealer cannot easily duplicate the problem for a warranty claim, any work done is lost time and money unless the customer can be billed. Dealer has lots of other easy money to be made, like oil and tire changes. Troubleshooting an intermittent problem is just a headache to them. Most times, doing the right thing and taking care of the customer does not really enter the picture.
Joppi
New Member
Can you take a video of your problem when it happens? and show them, they can't say there's no problem.
Bob S.
Member
So, it has been 3 weeks now since the mechanic told me to run Premium fuel and ride the bike in sport mode and open the throttle and let the engine shift close to red line to see if that will help my NC from stalling. It seem to help for a week or so then stalled 2 times within an hour.
Now, I have notice that I have a new problem with the transmission in the "Standard" auto mode. The transmission stays in 2nd gear and won't shift to 3rd. It was stuck in second gear. I had to use use the paddle shifter to shift into 3rd gear... This is a new problem that started last week. I have over 1,200 miles on my bike. Now, I wish I have bought the manual version.
Now, I have notice that I have a new problem with the transmission in the "Standard" auto mode. The transmission stays in 2nd gear and won't shift to 3rd. It was stuck in second gear. I had to use use the paddle shifter to shift into 3rd gear... This is a new problem that started last week. I have over 1,200 miles on my bike. Now, I wish I have bought the manual version.
I
I chuckle every time I read the advice given by that so called mechanic.
showkey
Super Mods
While it is true there’s no real idle adjustment. The idle is controlled by a servo motor on the side of the throttle body. The idle air controller is powered by the ECU. The servo spins a rotary valve that meters or controls the air flow at idle. It allows more air in cold to create a fast idle on cold start.
The dealer needs to fudge the facts on duplicating the problem as they are not likely to test ride for hours.
Dealer tech just needs to write down on the work order…..found inconsistent or low idle on test drive: then…….
At some point the dealer needs to load up the parts cannon ( take a guess) at start replacing parts until the problem goes away.
#7 on the parts diagram is the idle air control valve. It would be perfect place to start on inconsistent idle.
Unrelated to the OP stalling, A few of us experienced a cold long crank to start. If you cracked the throttle slightly the long crank disappeared. Removing the idle air controller, clean it and reinstalled resolved the long crank. The theory was the air controller was sticking.
The dealer needs to fudge the facts on duplicating the problem as they are not likely to test ride for hours.
Dealer tech just needs to write down on the work order…..found inconsistent or low idle on test drive: then…….
At some point the dealer needs to load up the parts cannon ( take a guess) at start replacing parts until the problem goes away.
#7 on the parts diagram is the idle air control valve. It would be perfect place to start on inconsistent idle.
Unrelated to the OP stalling, A few of us experienced a cold long crank to start. If you cracked the throttle slightly the long crank disappeared. Removing the idle air controller, clean it and reinstalled resolved the long crank. The theory was the air controller was sticking.
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lootzyan
Well-Known Member
....
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Bob S.,
You said you have an intermittent stalling problem when leaving a stop light. Then you said you had problems with the transmission sticking in second or third, but I don't recall the exact issue. So I'm wondering if your stalling is being caused by the transmission, like perhaps the DCT is in second gear when you try to start away from a stop? Have you observed the gear indicator during those scenarios?
You said you have an intermittent stalling problem when leaving a stop light. Then you said you had problems with the transmission sticking in second or third, but I don't recall the exact issue. So I'm wondering if your stalling is being caused by the transmission, like perhaps the DCT is in second gear when you try to start away from a stop? Have you observed the gear indicator during those scenarios?
lootzyan
Well-Known Member
I was unaware that the 2021 NC750 is equipped with a Throttle By Wire system. This adds a lot of extra levels to throttle function, so forget any advice I gave before.
This changes how the throttle system should be diagnosed and without knowing the service manual this guesswork is of little value.
I consider that engine stalling while riding is a safety defect.
You should therefore follow Honda's advice in your owner's manual:
Joppi
New Member
This seems to have something to do with the shift motor or sensor?
dduelin
Site Supporter
Did it exhibit this behavior once or does it stay in 2nd all the time now and won't shift to 3rd? Once in 3rd did it shift normally to 4th, 5th, 6th? Does it downshift to 1st when coming to a stop?
lootzyan
Well-Known Member
"...The transmission stays in 2nd gear and won't shift to 3rd. It was stuck in second gear. I had to use use the paddle shifter to shift into 3rd gear..."
This means that the shift motor is functioning properly.
However, I have not heard so far that it is possible to change gears with the paddle shifter when the DCT was stuck in gear.
dduelin
Site Supporter
Yes, if the shift motor was not working properly the paddle shifter wouldn't perform the 2nd to 3rd shift in Auto or Manual mode. I suppose in Auto the PCM might not send a shift signal but a manual paddle shift still could. That's one reason I asked if this problem was repeated in the 3rd to 4th, etc shifts and during downshifts or if it was a one-time occurrence. We might not hear from the OP as he hasn't been on site since Saturday's post.
lootzyan
Well-Known Member
Paddle shift signal goes to PCM. I thought PCM would prevent gear shifting if something was wrong and put DCT into limp mode. Unless there has been a change in the algorithm in the 2021 model and manual override is possible. I wouldn't like such a solution. The whole idea of limp mode is to prevent more damage to DCT.
D
Deleted member 1183
A friend purchased the '21 model 750X earlier in the year. Being aware of the stalling issue with 21's from posts on here I asked him if He had similar issues. He told me that his bike stalled three times taking off from a stop. This happened during the first 3000 kms. He now has 8000kms on the bike and the issue seems to have gone away. He also noted that the tickover has risen marginally also.
TheIronWarrior
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I think it's only not charged to the customer if they can process it as a warranty claim. Where the issue cannot be identified, I imagine Honda isn't accepting it as a warranty claim at this point.
Not all issues on new machines are warranty claims. For example: I buy a new bike, a rodent chews through all the wiring the next day, that's not a warranty claim. If I want a shop to fix it, I'm going to have to pay.
I imagine what's happening is that the customer is being billed up front, but if this is found to be a warranty issue, the customer will be reimbursed. Some shops may allow the charges to sit pending until it is determined to be a warranty or not, but that leaves the shop holding the bag if it's not warranty and the customer skips out on the bill.
I had a similar issue with an insurance claim where I had to bring it in for an inspection. I had to pay upfront, but had I gone through the insurance claim, I would have applied the cost of the inspection to the claim as well.
bigbird
Site Supporter
I read an interesting related topic on a GL1800 forum.
The same issue was affecting a significant number of ride by wire 2018 and newer Goldwing DCT's.
A top Goldwing guru with ties to Honda Japan suggested it may be possibly the ECM idle control that the new throttle by wire system employs needs time to learn, or maybe the bearings in the engine are tight just need some time to break in fully. He also suggested that possibly it could be the learning curve of the DCT clutches, and/or the clutches themselves breaking it.
He said the idle control stops the fuel delivery completely when closing the throttle.
If there is too much internal drag on the engine moving parts, the resumption of fuel for the maintaining of an idle may be insufficient to overcome the friction.
After the engine breaks in thoroughly, the excess internal friction disappears, allowing normal operation.
A tech at a dealership said they had heard of this problem, and it seems to disappear on its own after a couple thousand miles of riding.
Griff's post that I quoted sounds very similar to the Goldwing issue.
That still doesn't make this safety problem OK or suggest a fix, but it may give some direction in getting it reported to Honda Corporate.
My suggestion to Griff and others would be this:
Once your bike has reached the suggested break-in mileage (300 miles or 500 km), take your bike out on a highway and give it a good workout.
That would involve brief bursts (5 seconds) of full throttle, 5k high rpm operation followed by 5 seconds of high vacuum coast down (no throttle).
You don't have to be in 6th gear to do this, 4th or 5th would be better if you're concerned about getting a speeding ticket.
Allow a minute or so of steady cruising at 3k rpm to cool down the oil and moving parts, and repeat the cycle about 10 times.
Then see if the stalling problem returns.
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It sounds as if there is a design flaw. If the cause is due to the reasons you mentioned, as you said. it doesn't simply make the problem OK. Honda should develop a solution and deploy a safety recall, service campaign, or technical bulletin, as well as fix the problem in forward production.
In the meantime I'd advise USA owner's experiencing the 2021 stalling problem to file a report to the NHTSA. https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index
dduelin
Site Supporter
Geez. Let's throw in a little eye of newt and toe of frog just to cover all the possibilities of what fixes it.
When the 2018 model Goldwing hit the dealers there were a few complaints by owners of off idle stalling in DCT models. I worked in a Honda dealership at the time and when the first complaint bike came in the service department on an appointment the service manager called Honda support in Torrance, CA and the tech worked several hours over the phone with Honda. Our area technical rep was there. The fix was a reflash of bike's engine management software with the newest version. That was the standard fix for 2018 bikes that presented the complaint. I think we had two owners with it and sold maybe 40 or 50 2018s. It was never a widespread complaint and involved very few bikes.
When the 2018 model Goldwing hit the dealers there were a few complaints by owners of off idle stalling in DCT models. I worked in a Honda dealership at the time and when the first complaint bike came in the service department on an appointment the service manager called Honda support in Torrance, CA and the tech worked several hours over the phone with Honda. Our area technical rep was there. The fix was a reflash of bike's engine management software with the newest version. That was the standard fix for 2018 bikes that presented the complaint. I think we had two owners with it and sold maybe 40 or 50 2018s. It was never a widespread complaint and involved very few bikes.
