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Some thoughts (possibly bad thoughts)

  • Thread starter Deleted member 1183
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Deleted member 1183

I was off out on my NC yesterday around the bumpy backroads that I frequent the most. Sadly I didn't enjoy the spin. The reason was that my lower back was a bit tender, and the harsh suspension on the NC was hurting it. In the end I went home earlier than expected because of this. I also had a little incident where the front end pushed wide on a right hand bumpy bend at a brisk pace, and well heeled over. I corrected and got on with it, but this is not the first time that has happened. More about that later.

I then got to thinking. I have the bike three years now. There is a lot I love about it, mostly the motor. However the chassis has always bothered me both from a comfort point of view, and that strange occasional tendency to push on some bends at a brisk pace when well heeled over. Over here we ride on the left.

At one point I seriously considered giving the bike the Wilbers treatment. However there is no effective cure for the front end harshness without spending considerably on fork inners. Add that to the cost of a Wilbers shock, and I felt that the total cost could not be justified in terms of percentage of the value of the bike. I have given my Triumph the complete treatment and it has been totally successful. So much so that the Triumph has had about 3000kms put on it during the past two months, whereas the NC has only had about 500. The NC is brilliant at what it was intended to do as long as the roads are smooth and well paved.

Coming back to the tendency to push its front end. I had noticed this from a very early stage of ownership. I initially blamed the Z8's and they certainly played a part imho. Michelin PR3's almost eliminated this but it still occurred occasionally. It usually happens at a brisk pace on bumpy bends. Yesterday it was clear that small sharp bumps in close proximity to each other provoked it. The suspension is budget after all and the set up of the damping was not able to cope. However one of the staff at the Honda shop also suggested to me that he was not confident in the front end of their demo NC750X. He compared it to their demo KTM1000 Adventure which he suggested was much more sure footed. That is also a heavier bike but not by much. It does have better suspension. My Triumph is a much heavier bike than the NC and longer also. It is a gem on a backroad and the front end is as sure footed as any bike I have ever ridden. However it is also much more sure footed on a smooth road where the NC should be in its element. I trust the Triumph. I am always a little nervous of the NC in the same conditions.

So, I am thinking of a change. I originally bought the NC as a runabout that would be economical also. As my Wife pointed out it is being used for much more than that. However It has been used very little of late and there is no denying that.

What would I change it for ? One bike comes to mind and that is the Kawasaki 650 Versys . However it too has budget suspension and I have heard moans about it. It is good on fuel and generally a nice little bike. I have thought of the CB500X in the past also with a view to putting the Rally Raid kit on it. However I discounted that too, for a while.

Today I dropped into the Honda shop and I threw a leg over a CB500X again. I then swapped over to a NC750X. The smaller bike is more softly suspended. It also has preload adjustment on the rear shock. Neil in the shop told me that whenever he has to take out a demo it is one of the 500's that he takes. He loves them and he has quite a selection of different bikes to chose from. He preferred it to the NC. He would give me a good deal on the NC. I like 500's. I had two Kawasaki ER5's in the past. That was years ago. I used to love baiting folks on bigger bikes with them as long as the roads were tight. I am having bad thoughts.......

If folks have views on the CB500X I would love to hear them.
 
got to admit some times I get that feeling on the front end but I just slow down a bit.
not had a problem since till I fitted a new rear tyre a PR3,the front felt heavy.
not sure if its me or not.
the bike is now 3 years old since it was registered so it could be as old as 4 years.
can't see any cracks etc but maybe the tyre has gone hard a little?
as for the 500x I quite like them but it has no frunk so I'd probably miss that as well the DCT.
other than that I think they're a cracking little bike.

keep away from the versy I've ridden them twice two different models.
nice looking bike and I was going to buy one.
I didn't like them at all,just felt so wooden ,the ones I ridden did.
if you've got back problems this will definitely not suit you.
 
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I can't say I've heard any real complaints or disagreeable things said or complained about of the CB500X, which in a way surprised me to be honest, because I always thought that bike was more of a budget minded, introduction to motorcycling kind of thing. It seems to have garnered quite a bit of praise and support from many different types of owners.



The take on what makes one bike "worth it" and another "not worth it" as far as spending some money on suspension (or any other items really) though, I will never understand.

Edit- Oh, and just to be clear, I for sure don't mean that as any kind of tsk tsk or admonition of course, it's a totally subjective thing and I have no beef at all with it, it's just that I personally don't quite subscribe to it, is all :eek:
 
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I have both the NC700X and the CB500X. The 500 is as good as the 700. Power on the bikes is about the same with the 700 having a bit more down low. But the 500 has enough and it's red line is higher. The 500 is ridden by my wife and the mpg is almost identical when we fill up. She is much lighter than I am and with the one gallon larger fuel tank on the 500 it has a greater range. Geometry on the two bikes is similar with the 500 being 40 pounds lighter. I like the 700 but would have no problem having the 500 as my bike. I will add that if I was buying a bike for rougher roads or dirt roads, I wouldn't have bought either of them. I bought them for pavement and nothing else. After riding off road for so many years their short comings in that area would be just to much to overlook.
 
I have both the NC700X and the CB500X. The 500 is as good as the 700. Power on the bikes is about the same with the 700 having a bit more down low. But the 500 has enough and it's red line is higher. The 500 is ridden by my wife and the mpg is almost identical when we fill up. She is much lighter than I am and with the one gallon larger fuel tank on the 500 it has a greater range. Geometry on the two bikes is similar with the 500 being 40 pounds lighter. I like the 700 but would have no problem having the 500 as my bike. I will add that if I was buying a bike for rougher roads or dirt roads, I wouldn't have bought either of them. I bought them for pavement and nothing else. After riding off road for so many years their short comings in that area would be just to much to overlook.

Thanks for that response. One question. Of the two, which is more comfortable on bumpy roads ? My feeling today hopping from one to the other on the shop floor was that the 500 was slightly less firm. I am acutely aware of the shortcomings offroad especially. My biggest complaint about the NC is the forks.
 
The NC is brilliant at what it was intended to do as long as the roads are smooth and well paved.

couldn't agree more with that statement. In Poland we have still many very bad roads and I can tell you riding my nc750x on them is one horrible experience.

I suggest you try new v-strom 650 XT. IMO better option then versys and CB500.
The suspension is way better then NC.

p.s.
I am about to change as well probably for AT, but bot sure if I don't leave still ncx in my garage anyway.
 
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Thanks for that response. One question. Of the two, which is more comfortable on bumpy roads ? My feeling today hopping from one to the other on the shop floor was that the 500 was slightly less firm. I am acutely aware of the shortcomings offroad especially. My biggest complaint about the NC is the forks.

I wouldn't say the 500 is any better over the rough. Part of the harshness is due to the 17 wheels and tire pressures. I think you need a really good suspension to overcome that. I had asked about safe tire pressures and the response was that recommended pressures were safe. I did run the bike 28 psi for a short ride and the ride was much better. I did air them back up after the responses. On the dual sports I never paid attention to recommended pressures because they clearly have no reason to be that high. I ran 15 psi front and rear for dirt and pavement. The knobbies lasted longer on the street without the problem so many have had with knobs cracking or breaking off. I wish it was safe to run lower pressures on these bikes, the ride is very noticeably smoother. I will go with what others here have said since other than my FJR I have little experience on pavement.
 
I was getting hammered by every bump and crack in the road, I don't go off road, but I had RaceTech installed front and rear. They ask your weight, what gear you wear and have on the bike, also what type of riding I would be doing, since I told them street that's how it is setup.
It was not cheap, but it makes the NC so much better handling, the jolts are now small bumps compared to the stock suspension.
Went on a 300 mile ride today through the mountains where parts of the road get beat up by the ice and snow in the winter, much more enjoyable now.
 
I'm probably not changing bikes anytime soon, but I am very interested in the Yamaha FJ09. Don't think I would have the FZ09 but the FJ seems very nice. I have ridden the CB500x about 100 miles and was quite impressed. It was a very fun bike to ride. It seemed very small. I didn't ride any roads like your speaking of, but it does handle very good in the twisties. But my twisties were smooth.
 
I tested both the 500 and 700 before I bought, the 500 just seemed a little too small for me, I have short legs and a long torso. Also the frunk.
 
For less than $200 if I recall the Cogent Dynamic drop in cartridges sorted my forks very well. The stock problem is too much high speed compression damping making the forks harsh on sharp, quick bumps. For about $800 US the suspension is easily sorted front and rear. Of course one has to decide if the rest of the bike is worth dropping $800 on it. For me it was... The engine and overall handling was very good. Then I got the hots for the Triumph Tiger and it didn't matter anymore. After 29,000 great miles on the NC700X I moved on.
 
Then I got the hots for the Triumph Tiger and it didn't matter anymore. After 29,000 great miles on the NC700X I moved on.

and how could you stand that tiger's torqueless and whining engine? :)
 
I'm 61 years old and on long rides I wear one of these:

Back Support - Back Pain Solution | Back-A-Line

I found mine on Ebay in the US for $25.90 shipped:

back a line in eBay Motors | eBay

I bought it because I could not get comfortable on the seat on the PC800 I owned. Once I got the seat sorted out on the NC700 so my butt does not sting after 40 minutes, I'll wear it if I know I'll be in the saddle for more than a few hours. It works for me.

On Ebay it is available in several different categories:

Back-a-Line in Health and Beauty Supplies | eBay

I have the Cogent Dynamics inserts that I bought from Dave and a Aprilia Tuono rear shock I found on Ebay but I have not put them in yet. Working on the bike means not riding the bike.
 
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I am back looking at the Rally Raid kit again. I have sent them an enquiry and will consider overall when I get it. I wish they did something for the NC :(
 
and how could you stand that tiger's torqueless and whining engine? :)

Everytime you refer to the Tiger 800 engine as torqueless it makes you look very much like you don't know what you are talking about. The Triumph triple has a broad spread of smooth, creamy torque. I'll compare the two engines power outputs using graphs and try and explain to you what they mean.

Both the NC700 and Tiger engines begin developing torque at low rpms, the NC starting out a little lower, then the curves rise rapidly:

At 2,000 rpm the NC is developing about 35 ft/lbs - the Tiger needs 700 more rpm to develop the same amount. (35@2,700)

At 3,000 the NC is making a bit more than 40 ft/lbs - the Tiger is making 45 ft/lbs@3,000.

At 4,000 the NC is making 42 - the Tiger a bit less than 50@4,000.

At 4,700 the NC is max torque at 43.7 ft/lbs - the Tiger climbs to about 51 and stays there until 8,700 rpm.

The NC signs off at 6,500 rpm, the Tiger at 10,000. The area under the curves is much more for one compared to the other, area under the curves corresponds to available power. One has more torque, and more horsepower, at every point above 2,700 rpm. If you short shift the Triumph and keep revs under 6,500 it is clear the Tiger is making more torque everywhere from 2,700 to 6,500.

The NC engine develops the torque of a conventional 65-70 hp engine but when you go looking for the hp the horsepower isn't there due to rev limits. In the interest of efficiency Honda limits rpm to 6500. I get that, I got that, and I really like the Honda concept and execution of the NC700/750 engines. I bought one of the first ones in the USA and really enjoyed owning and riding it for more than 2 years. They are great, awesome, superlative and there is nothing really like them in class. The Honda goes it's own way and does it's own thing. I understand what the New Concept was about and frankly got tired of people that didn't and those that harped on the low power output of the NC. I didn't post this to be one of those people and don't take it as a rap on the Honda....but I will bring up the Honda's issue of vibration at certain cruising rpms. The first couple years this and other forums did have many recurring threads about it and a few owners that couldn't stand it and quickly got rid of their bikes because of it. I myself had no issue with it.....I simply avoided the particular rpm and load situations that seemed to provoke it. The Triumph triple has no such harmonics with the perfect primary balance a 120 degree triple offers. It is extremely smooth even when pulling low rpms.

I could not find a set of NC750 graphs. The 750 develops more torque and hp than the 700. I'm thinking about 3 or 4 hp but it's not enough to support a claim that compared to the Tiger 800 the 800 is torqueless. If you have a link to one that supports a different comparison then feel free to respond. :)

http://nc700-forum.com/forum/attach...e-nc7x-vs-vstrom650-nc700x-hp0torque_dyno-jpg
http://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-c...9/bmw-f800gs-vs-triumph-tiger-800xc-dyno1.jpg
 
Rally Raid has said they will be looking at the NC this fall.
Per Nitron shocks the CB and NC have the same size rear shock so the RR rear should transfer with no problem. The forks are the same basic design so the RR improvements should transfer with little or no modification by them.

On my NC I did the RaceTech Gold valves keep the stock springs. Cost ~$150. Made a huge difference with the sharp bumps. It also exposed the limits of the rear shock. Changed the rear for the Nitron and now she rides great. Also made the handling sharper which took a bit to get used to. That part surprised me that the handling would change so much with a rear shock change. Part of that may be from less sag in the rear since the spring is now sized for my weight.
 
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