Replace Brake Pads

[StratTuner]

I did do a search before starting this post....

Is it easy/difficult to replace the brake pads?

I have the service manual... I'll go and look there now.

I'm not much of a mechanic, but I do get brave now and then.

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

VERY easy. Just a couple of bolts front and rear. Use a good high-temp disc brake grease on pins and contact points.

 

[bamamate]

Easier than doing the chain. Book covers it step by step. As Lou said, get some grease for brakes which you can pickup at an auto parts store. Don't get the grease on the pad surface. Auto parts store will probably have it in a little packet which 1 packet will be plenty since you only need to put on a light coat on the pins and the points where the metal pad backing slides in the caliper.

One note, the auto parts store might try to sell you disk brake quieter (anti-squeal) which you shouldn't need. I use it on cars but the bike shouldn't need it.

 

[StratTuner]

Easier than doing the chain. Book covers it step by step. As Lou said, get some grease for brakes which you can pickup at an auto parts store. Don't get the grease on the pad surface. Auto parts store will probably have it in a little packet which 1 packet will be plenty since you only need to put on a light coat on the pins and the points where the metal pad backing slides in the caliper.

One note, the auto parts store might try to sell you disk brake quieter (anti-squeal) which you shouldn't need. I use it on cars but the bike shouldn't need it.

I've done the chain/sprockets replaement....hmm.... easier than that? That's encouraging!!!

Of course.... doing the chain wrong means the bike stops going forward while doing the brakes wrong means you can't stop going forward... that's what gives me pause.

 

[bamamate]

Oh now Strat, stopping is so overrated.

Seriously though, I understand the hesitation. I removed the rear pads the other day to clear out mud from a recent ride. Remove the guide pin screw, remove 1 of the caliper bolts, the caliper rotates up and ther are the pads. You will see that each end of the pads are sitting on thin metal thingys. I forget the name of them but basically they are smooth plate/clips that the pads slide on. Lift the pads off the plates, clean the plates, dab of grease on the plates, place the new pads on the plates. You will have to push the piston back into the caliper. Don’t know if you can push it in by hand on the bike. On a car I use a ‘C’ clamp to ease it back in enough to so it will go over the new thicker pads. Cleanup the guide pin and bolt, a dab of grease on them, torque down and you are done. Probably take about 15 mins the first time.

 

[StratTuner]

Well.. (as Ronald Reagan used to say).. I think I'm gonna give it a try!

Should I use THIS (8.99) grease or THIS (28.50)?

I plan to use THESE pads. (Any tools/stuff I'm forgetting?)

My idea is to do the rear brakes first and then wait a week to make sure they work properly. If they pass that test, then I can do the front. The worst case would be to do both at once, do it wrong, and have no way to get the thing to my mechanic.

One thing I don't understand is how the calipers (the things that grip the disk to cause us to stop) get backed off so they don't touch when NOT applied. There must be some screw adjustment because the new pads will be thicker than the old, and it seems like the new would rub against the disk. What keeps that from happening?

Ohh.. and one more thing.... If my mechanic would actually answer my emails when I ask him how much new pads cost, I might not be so quick to Do It Myself! Once I learn, I don't ask him anymore. Business must be good for him.

 

[Harald]

The basics have been covered, but I would add just one thing. Before pushing the pistons back into the caliper, clean the exposed portion of the pistons to avoid damaging the O-rings that keep the brake fluid inside the caliper. A tooth brush and some Simple Green works great for this. If you really want to do a perfect job of cleaning the pistons (I always do) then stick a piece of wood that's at least as thick as the brake rotor and the backing plate of both pads between the pistons and apply that brake. This forces the pistons out a little further for a really good cleaning.

You asked about how the pads retract and don't drag on the rotor? Keeping the seals clean is part of that action. When you apply the brakes, the pressurized brake fluid forces the piston out to put force on the pads and in the process the O-ring rolls a little. Once you release the brake pressure, the O-ring will want to roll back and this will retract the pad just a hair. Also, no rotor tracks 100% true and so that variation can also help push the pad back just a hair. If your pistons and O-rings are dirty and in poor shape, then the piston could resist retraction and then you have dragging pads which heat up the rotor and wear out quickly or enevenly. Taken to an extreme, dragging pads can heat up the brake fluid to the point where you lose brakes (and this would happen even quicker if you have old fluid with moisture in it inside your brake lines).

 

[bamamate]

The basics have been covered, but I would add just one thing. Before pushing the pistons back into the caliper, clean the exposed portion of the pistons to avoid damaging the O-rings that keep the brake fluid inside the caliper. A tooth brush and some Simple Green works great for this. If you really want to do a perfect job of cleaning the pistons (I always do) then stick a piece of wood that's at least as thick as the brake rotor and the backing plate of both pads between the pistons and apply that brake. This forces the pistons out a little further for a really good cleaning.

You asked about how the pads retract and don't drag on the rotor? Keeping the seals clean is part of that action. When you apply the brakes, the pressurized brake fluid forces the piston out to put force on the pads and in the process the O-ring rolls a little. Once you release the brake pressure, the O-ring will want to roll back and this will retract the pad just a hair. Also, no rotor tracks 100% true and so that variation can also help push the pad back just a hair. If your pistons and O-rings are dirty and in poor shape, then the piston could resist retraction and then you have dragging pads which heat up the rotor and wear out quickly or enevenly. Taken to an extreme, dragging pads can heat up the brake fluid to the point where you lose brakes (and this would happen even quicker if you have old fluid with moisture in it inside your brake lines).

I was thinking about this grease: AGS/Sil-Glyde brake lubricant (BK-1) | Brake Lubricant | AutoZone.com

The first grease you list for $8.99 would work since it is high temp. The second grease doesn't have high enough heat rating. The main things in grease for brakes are high heat and water proof.

To add to what Harald stated, changing the brake fliud keeps rust from forming inside the caliper. Rust will also keep the piston from automatically retracting.


You are correct that the piston will be extended too far to fit over the new pads. On a car I use a C-clamp to slowly push the piston back into the caliper. Too explain further, I take the old pad, place it against the piston and then fit the C-clamp around the pad and back of the caliper. Slowly tighten the clamp and the piston will slide back in. It doesn't take a lot of force. You may be able to push it back in by hand and you only need to push it in enough to get over the new pads.

One last thing, after you get it back together and before you ride it, pump the brake a few times to get everything seated. The first pump or 2 will feel soft and then it will feel normal.

 

[duk2n]

This is what I use:

 

[SergeantChuck]

You are correct that the piston will be extended too far to fit over the new pads. On a car I use a C-clamp to slowly push the piston back into the caliper. Too explain further, I take the old pad, place it against the piston and then fit the C-clamp around the pad and back of the caliper. Slowly tighten the clamp and the piston will slide back in. It doesn't take a lot of force. You may be able to push it back in by hand and you only need to push it in enough to get over the new pads.

I've never had a bike long enough to change my brakes. I know. Lame. I trade them to soon and I guarantee I'll put more miles on this bike than any bike I've owned so I'll change my own brake pads.

Anyway, a question reference the paragraph I quoted. I've changed brakes on cars many times. When I do as your suggesting (because I do it the same way) on a car I take the cover off the master cylinder so I'm not fighting the back pressure of a seal reservoir. Do you do the same thing on the bike but cover it so no debris enters the system?

 

[bamamate]

I've never had a bike long enough to change my brakes. I know. Lame. I trade them to soon and I guarantee I'll put more miles on this bike than any bike I've owned so I'll change my own brake pads.

Anyway, a question reference the paragraph I quoted. I've changed brakes on cars many times. When I do as your suggesting (because I do it the same way) on a car I take the cover off the master cylinder so I'm not fighting the back pressure of a seal reservoir. Do you do the same thing on the bike but cover it so no debris enters the system?

Yep you can. I usually don't because I have had the fluid run over.

 

[MZ5]

Anyway, a question reference the paragraph I quoted. I've changed brakes on cars many times. When I do as your suggesting (because I do it the same way) on a car I take the cover off the master cylinder so I'm not fighting the back pressure of a seal reservoir. Do you do the same thing on the bike but cover it so no debris enters the system?

At least on the front, that's not necessary unless you've added brake fluid at some point. Unlike Honda (and other) cars, Honda motorcycle front brakes do not vent to allow air into the master cylinder as the pads wear. Instead, they have a rubber bellows that expands and follows the fluid level down. So, pushing the caliper piston back into the caliper simply collpses the bellows as fluid re-enters the master cylinder. Again, if you've added fluid at some point (like when flushing brake fluid, for example), then you may need to remove the cap just because there will be too much fluid in the system. Don't let it get on any paint!

The rear brake master cylinder I don't recall (even though it was just a couple weekends ago that I flushed 'em). It may not have that bellows, so it may make things simpler to remove the cap(?).

 

[StratTuner]

Well ... It's a good thing I didn't buy any of that stuff...

I sat down with the manual tonight (page 19-18) and read over the instructions. They're small and fit on one page...with pictures.

I'll go over things that ... cause me to fail.

"Install new brake pads [1] to the brake caliper..."

What is a brake "caliper"?

"INstall the brake pad pin by pushing the pads against the pad spring to align the brake pad pin holes in the pads and brake caliper."
(what? what is a brake pad pin? pad spring? brake pad pin holes? brake caliper? (again) )

Unlike replacing the chain and sprockets (which I'd done on road bicycles for rears), I simply have no similar experience to call on.
I'll go looking for a video maybe. The diagrams and pictures are just ... overwhelming... at the moment.

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

Well ... It's a good thing I didn't buy any of that stuff...

I sat down with the manual tonight (page 19-18) and read over the instructions. They're small and fit on one page...with pictures.

I'll go over things that ... cause me to fail.

"Install new brake pads [1] to the brake caliper..."

What is a brake "caliper"?

"INstall the brake pad pin by pushing the pads against the pad spring to align the brake pad pin holes in the pads and brake caliper."
(what? what is a brake pad pin? pad spring? brake pad pin holes? brake caliper? (again) )

Unlike replacing the chain and sprockets (which I'd done on road bicycles for rears), I simply have no similar experience to call on.
I'll go looking for a video maybe. The diagrams and pictures are just ... overwhelming... at the moment.

The caliper is the machined aluminum part that clamps the pads against the rotor. The NC calipers are made by Nissin.

When you remove the caliper bolt, it can pivot back and release the pads. The pad spring is a little steel clip that keeps slight tension against the pads to prevent rattling and to ensure that they don't bind in the caliper when they need to retract. You will need to put a little bit of pressure on the pads to push them against the springs so that the holes will line up and the pin can be installed through the pads and caliper.

I really don't intend to sound condescending, so please don't take it that way, but I think you may be overthinking this. Changing the pads on this bike is very easy. There's really only one way it can all go back together. As long as all bolts are torqued and you don't have any parts left over after you're done, it should be good. You can verify basic brake function in the driveway before you head out on the road. Your idea of doing one set, riding to confirm it's good, then doing the other is probably prudent.

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

EDIT: Sorry about the image distortion. It's the innerwebs, not me. At least you can still tell what everything is.

Here are some pics that might help. First is the Front Caliper. To change the pads, remove the Front Caliper Lower Bolt and The Front Pad Pivot. The caliper will swing upwards away from the rotor and the pads can swing down and drop out. The motion looks like a "Z", or kind of like a Swiss Army Knife.






Here is a Top View of the Rear Caliper. Procedure is similar to the Front Caliper. Remove the Rear Caliper Rear Bolt and Rear Pad Pivot Bolt. The Rear Caliper can pivot up on the Rear Caliper Front Pivot Bolt and the Rear Pads can drop out the back.




Here is a front view of the rear caliper. Same as on the front caliper, the Rear Caliper Front Pivot Bolt does not need to be disturbed for pad change. The caliper can pivot up on this bolt once the Rear Caliper Rear Bolt is removed.



Installation is similar front and back. Clean and grease the bolts and pivots, apply a small dab of grease on the contact points on all pads, then reinstall with new pads. You will have to push against the Pad Springs to get the holes to line up. Make sure to clean up any grease on the pad friction surface or brake rotors with brake cleaner. It will probably take a few miles to get the new pads bedded into the surface of the rotors, so don't be alarmed if there is some noise during braking or if the brakes don't feel quite as strong for the first few miles. They should return to normal after a few solid applications. Listen for the pads dragging while you are not applying brakes, look for any rotor discoloration or galling, and make sure nothing is getting too hot after a normal ride.

 

[Old Can Ride]

The folks on this forum are so nice when it comes to helping a fellow member. Honda could use this for a brake pad changing training class. Keep up the good work folks!

 

[StratTuner]

I think I'll print out all the fine work on these pages (thank you, gentleman), and then sit on the ground next to the brakes and complete the shop manual instructions one at a time.
As I'm fond of saying "it's a zen thing". I won't really understand it until I do it.

The labeled photos and encouragement are a great boon to me... thank you.

 

[happy]

Did I mention the garage wanted around US$350 to change brake pads (front and back) and fluid including labour in?
350?
That much huh?

 

[ziggie]

Don't mean to change your topic strat but where did you get your service manual?I need one and wanted to know best price to get one,thank you

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

The labeled photos and encouragement are a great boon to me... thank you.

No problem. If anyone ever needs labeled images or instructions like this, just let me know. I have a camera, Autocad, and can usually spare the time at night. In fact, maybe I'll start a thread where people can request labeled sketches like this.

Yeah, with Blackjack and hookers.

Never mind, forget the sketches and the Blackjack.