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Not an Oil Thread

670cc

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That is why Honda specifies 10W30 in the NCX engine. Whether the NCX engine had been developed yet or not is immaterial.

Oil temp is an easily-measured manifestation of the additional power and fuel wasted by higher-viscosity oils. Thank you for bringing that into the discussion, as it is a much easier way to see the wasted fuel that drove Honda (who have had a core organizational philosophy of using less fuel and other resources for a long time) to make the viscosity recommendation change.

Interestingly, if you watch oil temps what you'll find is that there's an optimal* fluid viscosity. Use a too-thick fluid (vs optimal) and oil temps rise. Use a too-thin fluid and oil temps also rise. The former is due to wasted power and fuel. The latter is due to excess metal-to-metal contact and wear. This reality is how we know that the oil temp work you refer to was about wasted fuel. Had the data they collected been used to INCREASE viscosity, that would have told us the recommendation change was about wear and durability. That the outcome was to REDUCE viscosity demonstrates that the recommendation change was entirely about fuel savings.

*NOTE: "Optimal" depends a very great deal on use case. Racetrack or high-speed Autobahn use of a small-displacement engine has a very different 'optimal' point than average American-street use of a larger-displacement engine.
LOL. The title of the thread is Not an Oil Thread, but clearly it is one.
 

mzflorida

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I'm confused. The first post was this - " They were testing oil filters under the premise of seeing if more horsepower could be observed from one to another.."
Then you didnt see any HP increase on the video?

And so now we are going to devolve into a oil filter post?
One to two HP increase from one filter - Sorry I am not that hard up for a HP increase.

AND - here's something I'm sure most will not like - the Honda filter is most likely holding you back that one or two HP - Better change it out!
Yes, you are right. The tests were intended to test a hypothesis that an oil filter, by its design presumably, could influence horsepower. The hypothesis was disproven in the tests on the show.

The purpose of my post was to inform that I watched this show, K & N Filters showed the best performance for flow/pressure/filtration, and they may be worth a shot to try for their stated purpose of filtering oil. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. I don't know what else to say.
 

TheIronWarrior

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The tests were intended to test a hypothesis that an oil filter, by its design presumably, could influence horsepower. The hypothesis was disproven in the tests on the show.
To clarify, was the hypothesis that the oil filter could influence horsepower, or that the oil filter could measurably influence horsepower?
The power requirement of the pump (being a PDP) is going to depend on the pressure differential. The pressure on the inlet side of the pump is more or less going to be constant, and at the very least, independent of filter choice. The pressure on the outlet side of the pump is going to be impacted by the restriction caused by the filter, up to the point the relief valve opens.
From here we have two cases:
1) The relief valve is open. In this case, the pump is producing a constant pressure differential and there is no change in pump power.
2) The relief valve is closed. In this case, the pressure differential is going to be affected by the restriction in the oil filter. A more restrictive filter will cause a higher pressure differential. A higher pressure differential will require more pump power, thereby reducing the engine power available to the wheels.
Considering the service manual gives oil pressure at 5000RPM, I am assuming that the pressure relief valve opens at the given pressure of 68PSI, and the pump develops this pressure somewhere below, but close to, 5000 RPM, meaning operation of the engine below 5000RPM is likely to result in the relief valve being closed and the pressure differential (and therefore pump power, and therefore available horsepower at the wheels) impacted by how restrictive the oil filter is. This also means, however, that above 5000RPM, the pump is working at a constant pressure and therefore constant power consumption. This means the peak HP (which is at 6250RPM) is unaffected by oil filter choice, except for in the extremely unlikely case that a free enough oil filter could reduce the pressure in the oil system below the pressure relief valve operating pressure.
It is important to note a PDP moves a constant volume of fluid per rotation, so flow rate depends only on pump RPM and can be effectively ignored for power comparisons.

To sum up, with the design of the NC700 motor, oil filter restriction will have no impact on peak horsepower to the wheels, however will impact horsepower to the wheels for operating RPMs that give an oil system pressure below the relief valve limit pressure.
 

mzflorida

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I placed this in the bar as I wasn't referring to the NC, only that the K & N oil filter may be a good choice for a filter in your car, ATV, or any motorcycle.
 

670cc

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Well, not intended to be. I regret posting it.
It's not your fault it became an oil thread. The members at large can't resist a chance to discuss oil. Placing the thread in the bar was a good decision.
 

670cc

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I placed this in the bar as I wasn't referring to the NC, only that the K & N oil filter may be a good choice for a filter in your car, ATV, or any motorcycle.
Everyone has their likes and dislikes, but after my bad experience with K&N air filters, I'll never buy their products again. I will not elaborate on that, so as not to spark further discussion about K&N or any specific vendor's filter products. It's simply my choice.
 

TheIronWarrior

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It’s only an oil thread if we argue about what kind of olive oil is best.
Extra Virgin is the best, obviously, but some people have used other grades with success. Just make sure it's labeled as "cold pressed".
No matter what, do not use pomace oil as it can harm the wet clutch.
 

Rabbit

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Extra Virgin is the best, obviously, but some people have used other grades with success. Just make sure it's labeled as "cold pressed".
No matter what, do not use pomace oil as it can harm the wet clutch.
We’re going to forum jail, you know that, right?
 
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