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Lithium Battery?

My Yuasa now is 2 1/2 years in service now. Maybe I should replace it? No, if it is not broke don't fix it! Fixing before broke consumes riding time!

If it holds about 50% of its capacity there is no reason to replace it. Mine was at this stage at about a year and something...
 
Thanks, you gave me a good answer, and a great idea. I had the led meter from some gift purchase for my GoldWing and it never has battery problems, but it produces 1100 watts so every 6 years I just replace the gel battery for grins and it never has not started. My only problem with the Wing is the operator hitting the shut off switch... :-(

I'm going to see how soon I can get a AntiGravity battery shipped and use the backup battery (original I replaced when I shorted my stator). The stator is producing fine as I thought it could be failing due to my shorting it out when I had the original battery installed. Yeah if not careful when you put the front sprocket cover back on (was just checking the sprocket at 2800 miles) and pinched the cable against the frame .... It was an easy fix for the dealer to find and fix. I was draining a battery in less than 100 miles and the voltage off the battery was < 11 volts. They tested the stator and it was fine but said to install a meter as it may fail sooner than expected (no history or idea how long they last in the dealer chain and a $500.00 replacement). It has been working fine (based upon meter) for over 13000 miles beyond the fix and my VOM shows > 13 v at 2500 rpm. Anyway thanks for all the help and the great exposition on the non-lead Lithium Battery, and good luck on getting that mind working on network problems again.

Just a curiosity are the networks in Greece M$ enterprise or Linux/Unix based now days. I remember with one of my students/friend that installed a first Greek keyboarded XT system in a hotel for the dept. of Tourism in 82-83. He loved Greece and the people as they treated him and his wife super great in the 6 months he was there. Had fun stories of the difficulties to get backup batteries systems and generators through the myriad of customs and families that owned the few computer outlets at that time. He had planned to only be there a month and took his wife so they could spend weekends touring Greece. One month ended up almost 6 months but he came back a much larger person in several avenues, one because of the wonderful food the others due to the wonderful people and customs of Greece. I haven't seen him in years as he has been working in WA for over 15 years.

Thanks again for the help, may the Holidays bring cheer and more.

Boz
Excellent choice! Just be careful with the REAL capacity.

I think Microsoft rulez now! We've lot of problems here... No dealer has stock, etc. You've to wait for two weeks or more just for a bulb...
Economical & political crisis (and not only)... In general, things are very bad... We don't know if tomorrow we'll have a salary... or even be in the euro-zone... It's disappointing that most of the people here leave in their fantasies, and not in reality...
 
My Yuasa now is 2 1/2 years in service now. Maybe I should replace it? No....

This is from YUASA FAQ’s page

Yuasa Batteries - FAQ's

"FAQ's
How long should a battery last?

Many factors affect the life of a battery
CLIMATE: Colder climates tend to be hard on batteries from a starting standpoint, and for the fact that many people put their bikes away for the season when not using. Sometimes without charging properly. Hotter climates tend to discharge batteries quicker, and dry out batteries quicker. "Average" climates are the best for long battery life.
USAGE: A battery that is used every day has the most chance of living a long life. Batteries that sit a lot, many times are neglected. This shortens overall life. Periodic charging is the best defense.
……….
NEGATIVE FACTORS:
SULFATION - Sulfation is a build up of crystals on the plates of a battery. This comes from not charging a battery properly. The more sulfation that builds up, the harder the battery is to charge, until finally it does not charge at all.
WATER LOSS - Water loss can come from overcharging, or just simple evaporation over time. This only happens with conventional batteries. This does not happen with sealed AGM batteries…….
LACK OF CHARGING - As mentioned previously, lack of proper charging is the main reason that a battery will not last as long as it should. At the very minimum, a battery should be charged once a month if left unused.
COMPLETE DRAIN - Have you ever left your key on, and totally killed the battery? If recovered in a short time period, the battery should charge back to 100%. But every time this happens, it is similar to the battery having a "heart attack", and shortening its overall life. Always turn your vehicle off with the keyed ignition switch, not the "kill switch".
TYPES OF BATTERIES, WHICH IS BETTER...
SEALED AGM BATTERIES - Last Longer. They are not "open to the air" by way of a vent tube. They do not lose water. ……Sealed AGM batteries typically last 3 to 5 years on average. 6 to 8 years is easily obtainable with proper maintenance. Typically sealed AGM batteries will give warning before completely dying. They will start slower, and require more charging. This is your clue to replace the battery. Typically they do not fail all of a sudden. …."
 
Anyone with experience with Shorai's 'duration' battery recommendation?

Shorai.JPG

LFX19A4-BS12 - About $180 online.

About due for a battery... OEM is starting to show its age at almost 4 years. On the fence to shell out the extra $50-75 for a Lithium, or just get another AGM. At this point the price gap has come down, if I can get 1-2 years more out of a Lithium over AGM, it pays for itself...

I'm open to any other suggestions on brands or specific battery models.

trey
 
As said before, ignore PbEq ratings and go for the real Ah. The ideal is a 11Ah LFP battery, but we may be ok with a 8Ah. Not less...

LFX, with that weight, must be around 9-10 (real) Ah.

Take a look at EarthX (w/built in BMS that balances and protects the battery) & Antigravity.
 
With an LFP you must get at least 4-5 years. Mine is about 3 years old and I can't see any degradation...

(2.000+ life cycles vs 300 max of AGM...)
 
As said before, ignore PbEq ratings and go for the real Ah. The ideal is a 11Ah LFP battery, but we may be ok with a 8Ah. Not less...

LFX, with that weight, must be around 9-10 (real) Ah.

Take a look at EarthX (w/built in BMS that balances and protects the battery) & Antigravity.

ste7ios, I really appreciate your input on the subject, you're knowledge on the matter is clear.

You seem to be looking at weight to determine true capacity rather than MFG ratings. Is about 1 lb weight per 4 Ah a rule of thumb you've found? If so, sounds like I should be looking for a battery around 3 lb, give or take.

Antigravity had a booth at MotoGP this past weekend and I was able to handle some of their models -- light weight is right!

EarthX is $$$, it looks like the ETX24C (Link) at 2.6 lb would be the one I want, but at $260.00 that's just too much for my blood. Couple that with a 2 year vs. 3 year warranty with AG and their own Ah rating of 8... I'm not sold.

I like what I'm seeing with Antigravity. The YTX12-12 (Link) looks to be the one for the NC. 3 lb, though it is a touch taller than the stock battery by ~.5". They claim a PB Eq of 12Ah, and the 3 year warranty is nice. At $195.00 or so online, that's not too bad.

I've got a few accessories, heated grips, etc. I'm going to measure my parasitic drain before I order to make sure I don't have some lurking amp draw that'd kill a lithium battery, but since my OEM has lasted this long, I don't think that's much of an issue, everything is on switched circuits triggered by the ignition.

Thanks!

trey
 
I just installed one in my bike the other day. The factory battery gave up the ghost so I did something brave,
 
I have had an EarthX ETX36C in my NC for over a year. It seems to be a bottomless pit of electricity. Last week I swapped it into my R1200GS and put a new Yuasa in the NC. I'm not sure yet what I think of the technology. Both batteries start the bike. Can't say I could tell the weight difference.
 
PbEq CCA & Ah are arbitrarily ratings based on assumptions. Mostly a marketing tool because people need something to compare... CCA doesn't even apply to LFP chemistry. It has no meaning... (Peukert's law doesn't apply, there is almost no internal resistance, and their behavior is very different...)

The proposed capacities are ok for racing bikes, not for real life... We don't need just to start the engine in a protected environment.

We need real Ah because:
1. In the winter the battery needs warming by consuming power, e.g. using the lights. At the end of the process you'll have a warmed battery but not enough juice to start the engine...
2. A small battery can accept less current than a bigger one. So the charging system may overcharge the smaller battery and destroy it (it's very rare but a thermal runaway may occur).
3. Parasitic drain (alarms, and other peripherals) needs real Ah. No explanation needed... :)

In general most of the reported problems about LFP have to do with improperly sized battery... (smaller) Overcharging or deep discharging...

YTZ12-12 is a twelve cells battery (4S3P) so the capacity is about 7.5Ah (supposing they're using A123's ANR26650M1-B cells: 76g & 2.5Ah per cell). Prefer a bigger battery of 16 or 20 cells or a prismatic with the needed Ah.

Also have in mind that it's not difficult to destroy a LFP if you let it to drain down to 20%. That's why propose a battery with BMS. It's also the balancing thing but I can't say if it's so important for SLI (starting, lighting, ignition) usage...
 
I have had an EarthX ETX36C in my NC for over a year. It seems to be a bottomless pit of electricity. Last week I swapped it into my R1200GS and put a new Yuasa in the NC. I'm not sure yet what I think of the technology. Both batteries start the bike. Can't say I could tell the weight difference.
For me LFP was the only way to go... I needed a new battery every year and something because of undercharging. Daily city riding i.e. riding in traffic, with many stop-starts, low RPMs, short distances & time (max. 25-30'), and heat in the summer kills lead acid with sulfation. It's impossible to FULLY charge lead acid with these conditions... And lead acid is happy only when it's FULLY charged (reading OCV of 12.9-13.0V) that stops sulfation...

Occasionally charging with a maintainer didn't really help...

LFP is charging really really fast and doesn't have any problem when it's not fully charged. There is no sulfation...
LFP is also VERY strong because there is a minimal voltage drop, it's almost flat, and can provide all of their current in a moment!
 
Got a Lithium Ion battery from Advanced Auto, battery dead on Sunday morning and no choice but to get one. $142. Never had a problem what so ever. 260 CCA. Even had a bit of foam behind the nuts to hold them in place. Got it in all hooked up on first try.
 
BIG difference between Lithium Ion and LiFePO4. I would not want to sit over a Li Ion but I have been extremely happy with LiPO4 batteries I have used for Amateur Radio applications. If I change from lead acid (still waiting for OEM to die) it will be a LiPO4 with built in BMS.
 
These are smaller too (at least the Shorai) so there is enough room to fit a multi-tool and other stuff in the free area. This is not as handy on this particular bike due to where the battery is (nice on vstrom) but if i get one I will squeeze my tire repair kit in along with it
 
Lithium Ion is okay as long as there's a battery management system circuit board integrated that prevents over discharging, has a built in resettable fuse, and balances the cells.
(And don't stab it with anything....) LifePO4 is a good too and would probably do better in a crash.

I have a 960Wh Li-Ion battery pack that has 126 18650 type cells (14s9p) shaped like a triangle to fit inside a bicycle frame. :)
It has lasted 3 years but is now only about %60 of its initial capacity, but that's with 20-30A constant load.
 
Amazon.com: YTZ14S Z14S Lithium Ion Sealed Battery 12V - 300 CCA HONDA VT750C, C2, C2B, RS Shadow, VT750DC, A, B Shadow Spirit: Automotive

I actually bought it about a year ago the first time my battery died without warning. I actually replaced it a month or so ago when the factory battery died without warning for the second time.

How did the battery terminal fit with the NC battery cables? I tried installing that Lithium battery from Battery Tender that is sold as a replacement for the stock Yuasa YTZ12S and it was a total failure. The terminals on the BT battery are smaller than the Yuasa and the screws very tiny. The NC battery cables terminal DO NOT FIT those tiny battery terminals and even though there is probably a way to adapt them by trimming or enlarging the terminal screw hole, I would not trust the connection. I aborted the install and ordered same MMG lithium battery as yours which seems to have similar terminals size (TBC) than the Yuasa. Hopefully this will work. More to come...
 
How did the battery terminal fit with the NC battery cables? I tried installing that Lithium battery from Battery Tender that is sold as a replacement for the stock Yuasa YTZ12S and it was a total failure. The terminals on the BT battery are smaller than the Yuasa and the screws very tiny. The NC battery cables terminal DO NOT FIT those tiny battery terminals and even though there is probably a way to adapt them by trimming or enlarging the terminal screw hole, I would not trust the connection. I aborted the install and ordered same MMG lithium battery as yours which seems to have similar terminals size (TBC) than the Yuasa. Hopefully this will work. More to come...

no issues at all. like it was made for the bike.
 
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