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Front Suspension upgrade?

I ordered a set of the Ricor Intiminators (not sure I'm digging the product name choice, lol. Intimidators makes no sense, but it's at least a real word, "Intiminators" just makes no sense at all, that I can see) from these guys: Ricor Intiminators 41mm for All Honda XV600V Transalp | eBay

They thought so, and I hope so, that the 41mm NCX suspenders are similar enough to Transalp's etc., 41mm forks for a no issue fit. They did assure me I can send them back no problem, if they don't fit for some weird reason.

Bravo L.B.S.! Swing for the fences!

pioneer.jpg
 
Bravo L.B.S.! Swing for the fences!


I warn you, I may be badgering you for a lot of advice and speculations on stuff, lol.

I don't know if the R.I's are tuned differently via shim stack thicknesses for different models of bikes (ie: 41mm Transalp forks kit may use a lesser/greater quantity or thickness of shims versus a 650 VStrom, etc.) I would *think* they would be, but I haven't confirmed this yet.

I ordered the Transalp kit, but in hindsight maybe should have gone with the WeeStrom. I don't have enough knowledge in this arena to do anything other than fail and try again, heehee.

I really should have done some more homework and written out a comparo of similarities between various bikes, as far as fork spring rates, travel, weight of bike itself and so on, in order to as close as possible match up to the NCX, before jumping in.

Discovered the shims Ricor uses are same as Fox shocks, so at least they may be sourced without too much cost/hassle.
 
I warn you, I may be badgering you for a lot of advice and speculations on stuff, lol.

I don't know if the R.I's are tuned differently via shim stack thicknesses for different models of bikes (ie: 41mm Transalp forks kit may use a lesser/greater quantity or thickness of shims versus a 650 VStrom, etc.) I would *think* they would be, but I haven't confirmed this yet.

I ordered the Transalp kit, but in hindsight maybe should have gone with the WeeStrom. I don't have enough knowledge in this arena to do anything other than fail and try again, heehee.

I really should have done some more homework and written out a comparo of similarities between various bikes, as far as fork spring rates, travel, weight of bike itself and so on, in order to as close as possible match up to the NCX, before jumping in.

Discovered the shims Ricor uses are same as Fox shocks, so at least they may be sourced without too much cost/hassle.


I'd bet the range of adjustment is sufficient to find a happy place.

lee
 
Ricor Intiminators

Great L.B.S.

Many DR650SE guys have had great results with them ....

--- I thought about these since the first ride on the NC ..... been putting off doing anything about the harst/jarring Front Suspension since I have never worked on front forks before --- but BOY - that jarring has to be fixed, for me it's the one thing that takes away from the NC as the perfect bike for my riding style.

Keep us posted --- and if you can document and take pictures of the install !

Thanks ...


Suspension figure-outer challenged LBS, crosses fingers...
 
When you get the front and rear suspension sorted out and a few miles on it, the character of the NC goes from being an obvious budget bike, to a plush little roadster. It then (with a seat) exudes a luxury feel. Like turning a Corolla into a Lexus. Different bike.
 
I will handle my front suspension differently.

I will drill out the damper holes slightly larger, I will use Synthetic ATF, (automatic Transmission fluid) as i do Not like fork oil it breaks down very fasst! and from manufacturer to manufacturer there is no consistency in fork oil weights. One 15w is like another's 10w.

To get rid of harshness besides drilling the dameners, i will add two air fittings to the front fork caps, that way i can very easily change my front suspension between soft or hard, by adding more air or letting some out.

I have used Racetech, and I have used Progressive suspensions, some times you end up with a firmer ride that is less comfortable, than it was to start with.

Air in the front forks gets rid of any/all harshness.

In my doing several suspensions this way i have turned really bad front fork suspension, from a harsh, short travel front Fork, to a very comfortable magic carpet ride, that handled great.

All that is needed is about 10psi.

The fork caps need to be removed, then drill and tap them for the new air fittings, then either liquid seal or Teflon tape, the threads, install the new air fittings into the caps, and install caps

I will add a couple of washers to the front forks if needed, for preload to get rid of fork sag.

Every suspension i have done this to has become very comfortable and handled great
 
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There must be, because all ATF has different viscosities too.

The key is to find a weight of oil that matches the viscosity that you want - whether it's fork oil or ATF.

In the past it was very common for people to use ATF in forks because, well, there was no fork oil. Fork oil has come a long way and IMO is better than ATF.... but that's not to say ATF doesn't do the job, it absolutely does. I've used it in a street bike of mine when I had no fork oil on hand and guess what? It worked just fine!

Basically what Westgl is doing, is creating an air-dampened "emulator" (race tech sells emulators). In most emulator packages, you are required to drill out the holes to let more oil flow through them (soften the ride) and then the emulator sits on top of the fork just below the cap and when the fork gets to that point of compression, the valving takes over to smooth out the ride. Westgl is doing the same thing, but using AIR to do that "valving" rather than an actual valve-set and shim-stack which is built into something like a RaceTech Emulator.

There are pro's and con's for his method, but without getting too detailed into that aspect of it -- it is a tried and true method that people have used forever. It does work.
 
There are a few pro's to going Air over a Race tech Emulator.

Pro's for air.
a Air gauge tells you at a glance where you are.
Air is easy to put in, through a shrader valve in the fork cap.
Air is FAST!! to make a change.
a very small air compressor could be put on board, but is not needed.
When riding two up a quick change in air pressure is easy and Fast, (not so with a race tech)

I have RaceTech Gold Emulators & Race techs springs in the Forks one of my bikes currently. While it did help some, and the ride is better, it is NOT Great!.

The Problem with Current Fork Oil, Is that the Viscosities are NOT as indicated, one manufacturers 10w maybe be like another manufacturers 15W.

The other problem is Standard Fork Oil is very cheap oil that breaks down fairly quickly. Your 15w standard fork will be broken down thinning within one year.

Unless you get Synthetic Fork Oil.

When I use Synthetic ATF which is a oil that is Way More Refined than Any Fork oil is. It will last a long time I use Dextron VI, all Dex. VI is Synthetic.

Using Synthetic ATF, will allow you to go farther between fork Oil changes.

Big problem with Racetech Gold Emulators is, to make adjustments to the forks, The FORKS have to come apart to be adjusted. This is Very time consuming and if not adjusted right, the fork has to come back apart maybe several times.

I build custom bikes for fun, so to me tearing into the suspension is no big deal.

When you put air fittings in the fork caps, you can change your suspension by putting in or letting out air.

The most comfortable & best handling bike i have, has air forks, with ATF.

If you have any jolting, it is usually do to,

1. fluid not getting through the dampeners quick enough, and getting hung up there.

Race tech fixes/gets by this by this fluid hang, up by drilling larger holes in the dampeners, to allow more fluid to pass through the dampeners, at a quicker rate, a lower viscosity oil would also work the same, Then add air.

By adding air, this will make your forks more comfortable, not much about 10psi or so.

The air adjust-ability is simple and fast, I have a small gauge on one of my bikes, at a glance I know where i am at.

Then they use the Gold Emulator as a flow control/check valve that is adjustable.

Race tech's suspension is Not the "Best Solution" it is better though.




There must be, because all ATF has different viscosities too.

The key is to find a weight of oil that matches the viscosity that you want - whether it's fork oil or ATF.

In the past it was very common for people to use ATF in forks because, well, there was no fork oil. Fork oil has come a long way and IMO is better than ATF.... but that's not to say ATF doesn't do the job, it absolutely does. I've used it in a street bike of mine when I had no fork oil on hand and guess what? It worked just fine!

Basically what Westgl is doing, is creating an air-dampened "emulator" (race tech sells emulators). In most emulator packages, you are required to drill out the holes to let more oil flow through them (soften the ride) and then the emulator sits on top of the fork just below the cap and when the fork gets to that point of compression, the valving takes over to smooth out the ride. Westgl is doing the same thing, but using AIR to do that "valving" rather than an actual valve-set and shim-stack which is built into something like a RaceTech Emulator.

There are pro's and con's for his method, but without getting too detailed into that aspect of it -- it is a tried and true method that people have used forever. It does work.
 
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I would rather NOT Open/Modify the dampener holes, but go to a fluid to more closely matches my forks.

It is all about adjusting the hydraulics to your bike, rather than the other way around.

Air & ATF are both fluid's, you are using a combination of the two to get it right flow, and dampening rate.
 
Air and emulators are adjusting different things. The Air is adding a progressive spring into the system, but the emulators are modifying the damping curve. It's better to have the correct springs for your weight and control the fork action through the damping. Shim stack damping is a long way in front of damping rods. Damping rods will always have a progressive damping curve and are very hard to tune. If you have small holes to restrict oil flow at high suspension velocities it will be harsh on small bumps. If you have larger holes to give plushness on small bumps it will blow through the stroke on big hits. Shim stacks (cartridges and emulators) allow you to tailor the damping curve to be progressive, linear or digressive. A shim stack can be tuned to for initial plushness with good bottoming resistance.
 
I would rather NOT Open/Modify the dampener holes, but go to a fluid to more closely matches my forks.

It is all about adjusting the hydraulics to your bike, rather than the other way around.

Air & ATF are both fluid's, you are using a combination of the two to get it right flow, and dampening rate.

Do you ride in the dirt or just the street, just a question as I need something to take away the roughness when you hit a washtub like road. Everything was ok on the relative stock NC700x until we hit the washtubs and my mirrors and bars were a blur whereas the DL650 and KTM I was following did not have the same issue. Both said bike was stock but really do not believe them.

Thanks
 
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Has anyone found a sweet spot for drilling the compression holes that doesn't render them ineffective (like the RT emulator install wants), but reduces the compression damping to a point where you can handle square edged stutter bumps, etc?
 
Has anyone found a sweet spot for drilling the compression holes that doesn't render them ineffective (like the RT emulator install wants), but reduces the compression damping to a point where you can handle square edged stutter bumps, etc?

You mean without adding emulators? Drill out the holes, make it more compliant, but not floaty?

Good question, I don't know of anyone that's tried. The damping rods are only about $35/each if you screw it up!

trey
 
just what I mean. I also figure one could use some 5 wt as well as part of the tune. Drilling damper rods was something budget racers used to do back in the day.
 
Not sure how the X is set up (we don't get them in Oz), but the S suffers from too little damping, not too much. The harshness I felt stock was actually the forks bottoming out over the smallest bumps (I weigh 63kg, so not a big guy by any means). Have you put a cable tie round the fork leg to see if your forks are actually bottoming?
 
I'm sure the stock suspension is fine for some people. It will get you from here to there. It is a basic none adjustable fork and shock arrangement. I'm just looking for something better. I've been riding BMW's for a few hundred thousand miles and the NC doesn't compare in ride quality.
I'm sure the stock suspension is fine for some people. It will get you from here to there. It is a basic none adjustable fork and shock arrangement. I'm just looking for something better. I've been riding BMW's for a few hundred thousand miles and the NC doesn't compare in ride quality.
That is so true. However the NC did accomplish the goal of lower and lighter than my RT. Front is good enuf but I'm studying this for some improvement.
 
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