Fork (Suspension) Upgrades on '21+ NC750x

[Rydinon]

Has anyone installed the Cogent Dynamics cartridge emulators or RaceTech's Gold Valves on a '21+ NC750x? I'm ruling out the Andreani fork cart. kit because virtually everything on their website is currently out of stock.

From what I understand, the Cogent's emulators simply drop in on top of the existing damper rod and piston. It is a simple installation. RaceTech's website seems to try to answer all installation questions in a complicated format, but what I get is that one might have to strip the stock forks, drill some holes, reassemble it, THEN drop their gold valve cartridge on top of the piston. I installed Gold Valves on my ST1300s forks, and the improvement was dramatic.

I'm wondering what guys who have installed these on the 21+ year bikes have seen/felt in the modified handling.

 

[drdubb]

I ran the cogent system on my 700 and plan on putting them on my 750. Easy install. you remove the tubes, drain the oil and remove the spring. Drop the emulators into the tubes. I found one of those mechanic's magnets useful. Add back the oil supplied with the kit. I think it's 15 weight. I changed my spring. When you call those guys, they will want to know your weight with gear, type of riding etc. Great service. Very happy with the improvement. I stopped losing fillings out of my teeth with the change.

 

[Rydinon]

I stopped losing fillings out of my teeth with the change.

Thanks. I bet your dentist was not happy.

 

[jeremyr62]

It's not straightforward on the later bikes as they have the extra complication of the showa dual bending valves. It's been discussed a lot already on here.

 

[drdubb]

I found this in the previous thread on suspension>

"Cogent Dynamics now has the “fix” for the front forks on the 2021+ NC750X. I just talked to them"

The best thing to do is call.

 

[Donk]

Call Ted Porter at the BMW shop. After a conversation with him it was determined that a proper set of springs and some different fork oil is all that's really needed. He was the only one that could give me a straight and knowledgable answer as to what SBVF bending valves do and how they compare to cartridge emulators. Makes a HUGE improvement for not a lot of money. Highly recommend it and his shop. Don't let the BMW in the name fool you, Ted knows other bikes too.

 

[drdubb]

If you do this one, let us know how well it works.

 

[Rydinon]

If you do this one, let us know how well it works.

I'm going to order the DDC from CD tomorrow. I've been waffling between RaceTech's gold valves and CD's cartridge em mooo later. Two things decided it, 1. @dduelin's comment that the DDC's provide the best bang for the buck, (esp compared to RT's) and 2. RT's website is confusing, to say the least and it is a much more complicated install. I finally decided to go with their spring (the whole kit) instead of keeping the stock springs. Again, because of a post here. I'm not completely convinced that going with the CD spring is needed. The stock spring rate is .64kg/mm and CD's spring is .65kg/mm (or the other way round, or .63 and .64). The only significant difference is Honda's spring is progressive, CD's is not.

From what I know now, installing the DDC's is nothing more than removing the forks, opening the top cap, removing the spring, spacer, and washer, and dropping in the new cartridge. Oh, and draining/filling w/ new oil. The GV's require you to completely disassemble the forks, drill holes, reassemble, and oil them. I have enough mods I want to do to the bike that the difference in work would be significant to me.

I will report back here after a test ride. With our weather outlook, it won't be soon.

 

[dduelin]

While I would agree that Ted Porter at The Beemer Shop is a great resource, in the case of the NC700X I would disagree with his suggestion. This must be said that I have no experience with the Dual Bending Forks in the late model NC750s. My reasoning is that the 700s fork problems are centered around too much high speed compression and too little rebound damping. The springs are not too soft for me but the fork was unable to absorb small quick compressions. Soft braking compressions and soft isolated bumps are readily absorbed however. Under medium and especially hard braking the forks compress too much and when braking is released the forks rebound and extend too quickly too far, upsetting the suspension. Just changing the oil to a lighter grade would help the high speed compression but make the rebound damping worse. The solution for me was speeding up both high speed compression and slowing rebound with valving changes. RaceTech valving and damping rod modifications might be more sophisticated than the Cogent Dynamic drop in cartridges but the latter have worked out very well for my 165 lb riding weight and riding style.

 

[Donk]

Dave, I'm sure you are 100% correct about the earlier bikes. They have a completely different fork than the '21+ and I'm sure require a different fix. What impressed me about Ted was he didn't try and sell me something I didn't need. As explained to me the DBV fork is Showa's answer to the cartridge emulator. Not saying it's as good as the other brands but it is certainly sufficient for the NC750. With correct springs it's pretty good. The SDBV fork is not new, its been used on Harleys for several years now. Not that Harleys are any measure of performance.

Look at it this was try Ted's suggestion of correct springs and oil and see it you like it. If not at that point spend the money for cartridge emulators. Being cost effective (cheap) that's how I'd do it. yomv

 

[Tas152]

Dave, I'm sure you are 100% correct about the earlier bikes. They have a completely different fork than the '21+ and I'm sure require a different fix. What impressed me about Ted was he didn't try and sell me something I didn't need. As explained to me the DBV fork is Showa's answer to the cartridge emulator. Not saying it's as good as the other brands but it is certainly sufficient for the NC750. With correct springs it's pretty good. The SDBV fork is not new, its been used on Harleys for several years now. Not that Harleys are any measure of performance.

Look at it this was try Ted's suggestion of correct springs and oil and see it you like it. If not at that point spend the money for cartridge emulators. Being cost effective (cheap) that's how I'd do it. yomv

I can confirm for my 2021 manual that changing the springs to a set from Hyperpro to match my riding weight, 85kg (187lb) with riding gear, plus fresh 15wt fork oil made a huge improvement. The harsh jarring on sharp bumps has gone and the overall fork performance is much better. Great result for the small cost and very easy to install.

 

[ljurgens]

Look at it this was try Ted's suggestion of correct springs and oil and see it you like it. If not at that point spend the money for cartridge emulators. Being cost effective (cheap) that's how I'd do it. yomv

Did I see it right that springs for the NC from Ted's company would be about $200 ? I would like to go this route as I am about 250 with gear on, so I'm sure a different set of springs would make a big difference for me. Are there other companies to contact for the correct spring (non linear if I'm following this right)?

 

[dduelin]

Did I see it right that springs for the NC from Ted's company would be about $200 ? I would like to go this route as I am about 250 with gear on, so I'm sure a different set of springs would make a big difference for me. Are there other companies to contact for the correct spring (non linear if I'm following this right)?

The post before this one mentioned Hyperpro. Honda installed progressive rate (rising rate non linear) springs but most suspension tuners will suggest using linear or straight rate springs as they are easier to tune across the range of travel.

 

[drdubb]

I had a 700 on which I did the Cogent mods. Before reading this thread, I had planned on doing the same for the 750. Now I'm confused. I don't mind saving a few bucks, but I would rather know that I'm doing it right the first time and not have to spend the money twice. I guess I need to do more research. I have the same complaint about the suspension on both bikes, any small bump, especially square bumps, at speed are very harsh on both bikes. I was very happy with the cogent mod on the 700. I'm leaning towards calling them and to see what the fix would be. I believe the fork mods are under $300.

 

[Donk]

Did I see it right that springs for the NC from Ted's company would be about $200 ? I would like to go this route as I am about 250 with gear on, so I'm sure a different set of springs would make a big difference for me. Are there other companies to contact for the correct spring (non linear if I'm following this right)?

Springs and oil were $220 delivered. They are a custom rate progressive spring. Springs are matched for rider weight. I could have bought them cheaper but I thought Ted deserved the sale after spending 30 minutes on the phone with me answering my questions. Plus I don't know what the progressive rate is he is using.

Got to remember there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. If someone has had good results with something or a company in the past then stick with it. Go with what gives YOU the warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[mdpay]

I installed Cogent Dynamics front fork drop in's last month on my 2024 NC750. It was a fairly simple process provided you have a center stand or lift. The results were positive. I'm glad I did it. A definite improvement in compression harshness. I would say my front suspension went from a 4/10 to a 6/10. I love this bike, just wish someone made an ultra "premium" upgrade suspension.

 

[ljurgens]

I installed Cogent Dynamics front fork drop in's last month on my 2024 NC750. It was a fairly simple process provided you have a center stand or lift. The results were positive. I'm glad I did it. A definite improvement in compression harshness. I would say my front suspension went from a 4/10 to a 6/10. I love this bike, just wish someone made an ultra "premium" upgrade suspension.

Do these drop ins replace the showa dual bending valves or are they in addition to them?

 

[mdpay]

There was nothing to remove. You simple "drop-in" the new valve, fill with new 5w oil. I did have to trim my plastic spacers to maintain the same preload.

 

[Rydinon]

Where do they get the name, Dual Bending Valves? Does something inside the piston atop the damping rod 'bend' both ways like shim stacks?

 

[focus frenzy]

I can confirm for my 2021 manual that changing the springs to a set from Hyperpro to match my riding weight, 85kg (187lb) with riding gear, plus fresh 15wt fork oil made a huge improvement. The harsh jarring on sharp bumps has gone and the overall fork performance is much better. Great result for the small cost and very easy to install.

same here, switching springs and I also went with a half inch longer spacer with the 15 oil. made major improvement to ride and feel in corners. now for the shock.