rippin209
Well-Known Member
Glad to hear things didn't go any worse at least
Engine Fluttering Sound
- Thread starter SergeantChuck
- Start date
Hondafan
Member
You mentioned 2 things previous.....you bought gas at a new station, and (2), the throttle body could be turned in it's rubber connector. Although you sprayed some WD-40 around the connection and it didn't have an affect, I would still get that connection tight. I would also siphon the fuel tank and put some different fuel in there. Also check the connection on the oxy sensor for corrosion. Easy stuff that doesn't cost anything to verify.
That motor tends to struggle a bit at around 3000rpm, so any minor deficiency would likely be most noticeable there.
Thanks for the suggestions. I did tighten the throttle body tube and it was actually starting fluid I sprayed around that entire area. The hope was that starting fluid would make a more noticeable RPM change but it had no affect. I still ride the bike (might not be a good idea but I do) so it has had at least 10 - 15 tanks of new fuel since the problems started. I considered a corrosion problem on the oxygen sensor connectors so removed and cleaned the entire unit.
rippin209
Well-Known Member
Have you tested the air temp sensor?
I use a reusable K&N air filter and excess oil from the air filter was effecting the air temp sensor, I used a cleaner I thought was safe to use on the sensor but if it did anything it made it worse, replaced I replaced the air temp sensor and it fixed my problem
Last edited:
I replaced the sensor in the top half of the air box. I'm guessing that is the one your talking about.
rippin209
Well-Known Member
Yeah that's the one I meant, assuming you did the EFI reset, (reset the computer that controls the fuel to air ratio) I'm out of ideas.
Last edited:
showkey
Super Mods
Just to clarify for other readers down the road.........excessive oil from air filters that are reuseable are known to foul or contaminate the MAF ( mass air flow sensor). The NC does not have a MAF sensor. The intake temp sensors are not known to be damaged or effected by the air filter oil.
Cars and bikes with MAF use this sensor to measure air flow, the sensor is usually between the air cleaner and the throttle body.
The NC uses a MAP ( manifold absolute pressure sensor) which measures engine vacuum. MAP sensors are not usually harmed by air filter oil.
Cars and bikes with MAF use this sensor to measure air flow, the sensor is usually between the air cleaner and the throttle body.
The NC uses a MAP ( manifold absolute pressure sensor) which measures engine vacuum. MAP sensors are not usually harmed by air filter oil.
Last edited:
rippin209
Well-Known Member
If that's the case then I guess my air temp sensor just went bad (around 87,000 miles) my coolant temperature sensor (turns the radiator fan on) also went bad within a week or two of the air sensor and I'd never touched that, first parts to go bad that aren't normal consumables (tires, brakes and such)
Edit: actually I had a fork seal fail around 50,000 miles
Thanks for clarifying!
This might not mean anything but as everyone knows, I'm grasping at straws. Just for the heck of it, I unplugged the oxygen sensor for my trip home. I work 30 miles from my home. My average speed for the entire trip is 50ish MPH. I expected the engine to behave differently somewhere along that 30 mile trip but it did not. It didn't get any worse nor did it get better. It stayed exactly the same. The hopeful side of me wants to think that the oxygen sensor is bad and could be causing my problem yet there is still that voice in the back of my head that is saying it take more than 30 miles for the ECU to updated the system and notice the changes.
Any thoughts?
I'd rather figure this out on my own (with the forums help of course). I don't trust the local dealer, they have jacked my bike up three times so avoiding them until I have no other choice.
Any thoughts?
I'd rather figure this out on my own (with the forums help of course). I don't trust the local dealer, they have jacked my bike up three times so avoiding them until I have no other choice.
surf1div1
Member
First, props to you for your post. I have over 65K on my 2012 and after seeing that you've been working on this for over 4 months, you deserve a good conduct medal. So, I'm confused SergeantChuck due to your not getting a code after unplugging the O2 sensor per the post earlier:
Engine Fluttering Sound
" You will get the FI light however and error code will be recorded" In that post (#78) Dreamer makes mention of eliminating the error code with a dummy connector which your response above doesn't reference. Perhaps you neglected to include it but I have my doubts that you went to that trouble of getting one or I missed it. Please clarify so that those more knowledgeable than me can help since I'm also following this thread after having what appears to be the same issue and looking for answers.
Last edited:
rippin209
Well-Known Member
I don't know how long it takes for the computer to learn what's going on but I know you can reset it by
Step 1. When your engine is room temperature (sat overnight or while you worked)
Step 2. Unplug better (negative side)
Step 3. Turn ignition key to on
Step 4. Wait 10-15 min
Step 5. Turn ignition key off
Step 6. Reconnect battery (make sure both + and - are tight
Step 7. Start engine but don't touch anything but the start button, at all
Step 8. Wait until radiator fan comes on (engine reaches operating temperature)
And then your done, that's how it was explained to me at least
I just unplugged the sensor and did not add a dummy connector. No lights in the display during the entire 30 mile trip. Just went and checked again. No lights.
1wiseguy2
Member
I'd rather figure this out on my own (with the forums help of course). I don't trust the local dealer, they have jacked my bike up three times so avoiding them until I have no other choice.[/QUOTE]
Yes, this is why I now have invested in tools and more. You seem to be very handy around a bike. I have been following this thread from the beginning. You have sure checked a lot. Could it be as simple as a O2 sensor? Hope you get this sorted out soon!
This is what I did after getting jacked to the tune of almost $800 and he made me pay to fix his screwups. I haven't been back. I support another dealer now as he will match internet prices for parts. I want him there when I really need him.
My solution...
Just did forks, tires, carb, brakes and fluid. Last year I even had to take the head off as the daughter was running 70 mph on this little 250 and snapped an exhaust stud. My skills are growing and I know it's done right when I am done. Like when I removed the rear tire and tube I found rust. Fixed it and then coated it with something that stops rust cold. A lot of dealers would have just thrown on another tire and let her ride it out of the parking lot.
Truly hope you figure this out for your sanity soon!
Guy
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Yes, this is why I now have invested in tools and more. You seem to be very handy around a bike. I have been following this thread from the beginning. You have sure checked a lot. Could it be as simple as a O2 sensor? Hope you get this sorted out soon!
This is what I did after getting jacked to the tune of almost $800 and he made me pay to fix his screwups. I haven't been back. I support another dealer now as he will match internet prices for parts. I want him there when I really need him.
My solution...
Just did forks, tires, carb, brakes and fluid. Last year I even had to take the head off as the daughter was running 70 mph on this little 250 and snapped an exhaust stud. My skills are growing and I know it's done right when I am done. Like when I removed the rear tire and tube I found rust. Fixed it and then coated it with something that stops rust cold. A lot of dealers would have just thrown on another tire and let her ride it out of the parking lot.
Truly hope you figure this out for your sanity soon!
Guy
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
rippin209
Well-Known Member
Just so we're on the same page I was talking about the "air temp sensor" inside the air box, not the O2 sensor. I've never done anything with my O2 sensor on my NC so I've got no experience or input on that
Yea, someone else mentioned unplugging the O2 sensor and getting a fault code. It did not happen, yet, when I unplugged mine and rode 30 miles home. It will probably light up first thing in the AM.
showkey
Super Mods
Confused on what that is in your picture ? I thought you have. 2013 model ?
The O2 sensor on the NC is directly above the item in your picture at least on 2012-2013 model.
Item 12 in the parts diagrams
Edit after MZ5 post: is that the O2 wire harness hanging off the edge of coolant recovery bottle ????
The O2 sensor on the NC is directly above the item in your picture at least on 2012-2013 model.
Item 12 in the parts diagrams
Edit after MZ5 post: is that the O2 wire harness hanging off the edge of coolant recovery bottle ????
Last edited:
MZ5
Well-Known Member
Yes, what showkey said^^^
It doesn’t appear (I’m looking at a small screen in bright light) that you’ve disconnected the O2 sensor.
If or when you do disconnect the O2 sensor, the ECU will be forced to run in open-loop all the time. Aside from any codes, it will run based on pre-programmed fuel maps. There is no learning and no time delay for an adjustment in this mode. Fueling and thus running quality should be pretty good in this mode, but not quite optimized (at least from an exhaust emissions point of view).
***EDIT***
Upon further review, maybe it is the connector from the O2 sensor that’s hanging down? I’ve decided I can’t tell.
It doesn’t appear (I’m looking at a small screen in bright light) that you’ve disconnected the O2 sensor.
If or when you do disconnect the O2 sensor, the ECU will be forced to run in open-loop all the time. Aside from any codes, it will run based on pre-programmed fuel maps. There is no learning and no time delay for an adjustment in this mode. Fueling and thus running quality should be pretty good in this mode, but not quite optimized (at least from an exhaust emissions point of view).
***EDIT***
Upon further review, maybe it is the connector from the O2 sensor that’s hanging down? I’ve decided I can’t tell.
bvogel7475
Member
Wow, this drama is better than most books I’ve read. Sergeant I am feeling really bad for you with all of the effort you have put in. I am glad you didn’t take it to the dealer yet though. I am hoping you figure this out but am also anxious for this to happen sooner than later. Good luck. I am pulling for your success.
showkey
Super Mods
^^^^^^^^^Not sure I agree on not going to the dealer, I understand the lack of trust, cost, inconveniences............but........ good Honda trained tech witha Honda factory scan tool could verify every sensor in 3 minutes time by looking at the live data. There would be no guessing if the air (IAT) and water temp (ECT) sensors are working, the MAP and O2 values would be verified, throttle position sensor and Idle air controller ( IAC) checked, injector duration checked and the fuel pressure would be indirectly verified by the fuel trim and O2 wave pattern.
I do agree finding a good tech with that tool that knows what good and bad data stream looks like could be a challenge.
I do agree finding a good tech with that tool that knows what good and bad data stream looks like could be a challenge.
