" Dual Dorks" YouTube channel

[Afan]

Worth watching, in my opinion, about NC700X DCT "capabilities"

 

[melensdad]

Amusing. Clearly they need to be better navigators and stay out of the washes where the big rocks reside.

 

[670cc]

I just don’t have the patience to watch these videos for more than a minute or two but the impression I got was it was a story about using a street bike in a place where he should have used a much more capable dual sport. Maybe I misinterpreted it. It could have just been a story on how to abuse your NC.

 

[Afan]

I just don’t have the patience to watch these videos for more than a minute or two but the impression I got was it was a story about using a street bike in a place where he should have used a much more capable dual sport. Maybe I misinterpreted it. It could have just been a story on how to abuse your NC.

Yes, he's using the street bike instead a dual-sport. (He has one, in a shop, but it's irrelevant).
Abuse his NC? Maybe to strong word.
I see an adventures guy, who is not stopped to do a "job" even if he hasn't right "tool". He said himself in the video "This is not fun any more". But that didn't stop him.

 

[MalcolmReynolds]

He has a TW but the motor blew apart on him. He is normally riding it instead of the NC. He only recently spent some time to put the NC back together and has been riding it. He openly says he wouldn't normally be on the NC, but says the NC can do far more than most people give it credit for. It is entertaining to watch. The NC can do far more than I am willing to go out and try to do with it.

 

[Afan]

He openly says he wouldn't normally be on the NC, but says the NC can do far more than most people give it credit for. It is entertaining to watch.

Yes.

The NC can do far more than I am willing to go out and try to do with it.

Perfectly said.

 

[670cc]

Can the NC ride through tough terrain? Yes, as could many other street motorcycles. Would it be as safe or would it be as fun as using a proper dual sport, probably not. Motorcycle design purpose categories do have have some capability overlap.

I tried to make an NC into an adventure bike and that experiment was a failure, because dual purpose bikes can handle off road chores SO much better than the NC can.

 

[MalcolmReynolds]

Can the NC ride through tough terrain? Yes, as could many other street motorcycles. Would it be as safe or would it be as fun as using a proper dual sport, probably not. Motorcycle design purpose categories do have have some capability overlap.

I tried to make an NC into an adventure bike and that experiment was a failure, because dual purpose bikes can handle off road chores SO much better than the NC can.

If you watch Dual Dorks he completely agrees with you! LOL My riding is on the road, and there are lots of roads that turn to gravel or are just straight up gravel. As long as the NC can get me down a reasonably maintained gravel road I am happy. I don't have the off road skills to do much more than that and I would certainly be looking for a dual purpose bike if I decided I wanted to go hurt myself and a bike.

 

[melensdad]

If you watch Dual Dorks he completely agrees with you! LOL My riding is on the road, and there are lots of roads that turn to gravel or are just straight up gravel. As long as the NC can get me down a reasonably maintained gravel road I am happy. I don't have the off road skills to do much more than that and I would certainly be looking for a dual purpose bike if I decided I wanted to go hurt myself and a bike.

I live in a rural area and many of the roads abruptly switch from asphalt to either chip & seal or straight up gravel. The NC700/750x bikes easily handle any of these type of roads without any issue. I changed both of our NC's tires to Michelin ROAD 5 tires and honestly the that is a pure asphalt tire. It gets a bit squirrely on loose gravel, but you'd expect that from a 100% road tire. I've ridden on worn grass lanes, through grass fields, on lots of gravel and chip & seal and never had any issues. With the stock tires, or any 80/20 tire the NC7--x will handle any sort of "road" without any issue, be it a paved road or a well worn grass lane.

 

[670cc]

I live in a rural area and many of the roads abruptly switch from asphalt to either chip & seal or straight up gravel. The NC700/750x bikes easily handle any of these type of roads without any issue. I changed both of our NC's tires to Michelin ROAD 5 tires and honestly the that is a pure asphalt tire. It gets a bit squirrely on loose gravel, but you'd expect that from a 100% road tire. I've ridden on worn grass lanes, through grass fields, on lots of gravel and chip & seal and never had any issues. With the stock tires, or any 80/20 tire the NC7--x will handle any sort of "road" without any issue, be it a paved road or a well worn grass lane.

True. Gravel roads are just that, gravel roads. Last fall I easily (albeit slowly) rode my Goldwing 1800 on a 7 mile stretch of winding gravel mountain forest service road, with my wife on back. About any street bike should be capable of gravel roads with a reasonably experienced rider. It’s off-road where street bikes start to stink, and dirt or good dual purpose bikes shine.

 

[Afan]

True. Gravel roads are just that, gravel roads. Last fall I easily (albeit slowly) rode my Goldwing 1800 on a 7 mile stretch of winding gravel mountain forest service road, with my wife on back. About any street bike should be capable of gravel roads with a reasonably experienced rider. It’s off-road where street bikes start to stink, and dirt or good dual purpose bikes shine.

Maybe I didn't get it well, but I understood that anything but paved road is off-road. So maybe there is some classification what's off-road?
Loose, washed gravel - I hate it, it's my arch nemesis. And I'm scared of it. I don't mind to go to b-roads, single track, fire roads... but when it comes to loose gravel road - I freeze! I never fall on gravel road so my fear is not built on that. But when the front tire start wobbling, running "on it's own".... Urgh!...
And, before somebody asks, no, I barely hold my handlebar, I'm not leaning on it, I'm not putting my weight on it, I let it go where ever it wants - I know it will "come back"
But still...

 

[670cc]

Maybe I didn't get it well, but I understood that anything but paved road is off-road. So maybe there is some classification what's off-road?
Loose, washed gravel - I hate it, it's my arch nemesis. And I'm scared of it. I don't mind to go to b-roads, single track, fire roads... but when it comes to loose gravel road - I freeze! I never fall on gravel road so my fear is not built on that. But when the front tire start wobbling, running "on it's own".... Urgh!...
And, before somebody asks, no, I barely hold my handlebar, I'm not leaning on it, I'm not putting my weight on it, I let it go where ever it wants - I know it will "come back"
But still...

As for riding on washed, loose gravel, or sand, there is a skill to doing it. There are also bikes that are better at it, and the heavy, small wheeled NC is not one of them.

I guess there is no solid definition of road and off road. Some people refer to a gravel road as "off-road" when they really just mean "off pavement". (Frankly, that annoys me a bit.) In some places nearly all roads are gravel; if you're on a road, it's probably gravel. If all your roads are gravel, how could they be off road? The Top of the World Highway in Alaska is about 100 miles of gravel, but it is most definitely a road. To me, "off road" is a path where a licensed, common 4 wheel street vehicle would be unlikely to venture, or a single track trail, or no trail at all.

Just a few miles from my house there are a couple roads that are dirt. They’re not even gravel; they’re just dirt. Because I could easily drive an NC, car, or minivan down them (as long as it’s not muddy), I don’t consider them to be “off-road”.

There are grey areas. In the photo below you see what could be an old wagon trail, a dry river bed, or maybe an old washed out gravel road. While you could drive a 4WD truck on it, I'm undecided whether to call it road or off-road. I couldn’t tell if I was on a road, or riding in a dry river.

 

[melensdad]

Maybe I didn't get it well, but I understood that anything but paved road is off-road.

I guess I look at it differently.

Anything that is identified by the county or even the D.N.R. as a road is what I would consider a "road" for purposes of the definition of a road. Lots of mapped roads in my area are gravel or chip and seal. They are on the map, with street signs. So I consider them roads. Just because they are not asphalt paved roads does not mean they are off-road. On some private lands, nature conservancy lands, wildlife refuge lands, etc there are "roads" that are for vehicular traffic, they are often gravel roads in bad shape but they are designated as roads so I would also consider those roads.

OFF ROAD to me is what the term implies. Maybe an informal foot path, maybe a hiking type trail, maybe just an open field, a desert, a prairie, etc.

 

[Afan]

Just a few miles from my house there are a couple roads that are dirt. They’re not even gravel; they’re just dirt. Because I could easily drive an NC, car, or minivan down them (as long as it’s not muddy), I don’t consider them to be “off-road”.

Then, following your case, Dakar, Baja, BDRs... all on-road?
Hm...

 

[Afan]

I guess I look at it differently.

Anything that is identified by the county or even the D.N.R. as a road is what I would consider a "road" for purposes of the definition of a road. Lots of mapped roads in my area are gravel or chip and seal. They are on the map, with street signs. So I consider them roads. Just because they are not asphalt paved roads does not mean they are off-road. On some private lands, nature conservancy lands, wildlife refuge lands, etc there are "roads" that are for vehicular traffic, they are often gravel roads in bad shape but they are designated as roads so I would also consider those roads.

OFF ROAD to me is what the term implies. Maybe an informal foot path, maybe a hiking type trail, maybe just an open field, a desert, a prairie, etc.

I know English is not my first language, but I think the part "road" in the on-road/off-road word is not exactly as the "road" you are talking about. I totally agree with you regarding your definition of "Road". But with I think the on-road/off-road is more as a "description" of the car/motorcycle/4-wheeeler riding. Like 50-50 or 80-20 tires, BDR route, dual vs dirt bikes, etc.
As I said, maybe I got it wrong...

 

[670cc]

Then, following your case, Dakar, Baja, BDRs... all on-road?
Hm...

Well, I’ve ridden a dual sport on what was supposedly part of the Baja 1000 route (tour guide said) and from what I recall the part I was on was it was gravel and dirt road. I don’t know the overall routes they take. Guess I need to watch the movie “Dust to Glory” again. I’m guessing much of it may be off road.

 

[Afan]

Wikipedia: Off-roading

"... Off-roading is the activity of driving or riding a vehicle on unsurfaced roads or tracks, made of materials such as sand, gravel, riverbeds, mud, snow, rocks, and other natural terrain. Types of off-roading range in intensity, from leisure drives with unmodified vehicles to competitions with customized vehicles and professional drivers..."

[ link ]

 

[670cc]

I know English is not my first language, but I think the part "road" in the on-road/off-road word is not exactly as the "road" you are talking about. I totally agree with you regarding your definition of "Road". But with I think the on-road/off-road is more as a "description" of the car/motorcycle/4-wheeeler riding. Like 50-50 or 80-20 tires, BDR route, dual vs dirt bikes, etc.
As I said, maybe I got it wrong...

I think roadiness is in the eyes of the beholder. If one rider freaks out on a gravel road, to that rider it may be off road. The next rider rider might consider being off road when it turns to single track with bowling ball sized rocks and deep water crossings. It would be nice if there was a common definition for off road in order to picture what the other guy is saying, but I doubt it will ever be that way.

I like melensdad’s definition as being somewhat universal. If it’s called a vehicular traffic road, has a name or route number, and/or is on the map, it’s a road, unless it’s impassible with a street legal vehicle due to severely degraded condition.

Pictures below are roads on the map, with a road name. I consider them on-road, but the NC is not my choice for riding them.

 

[melensdad]

Wikipedia: Off-roading

"... Off-roading is the activity of driving or riding a vehicle on unsurfaced roads or tracks, made of materials such as sand, gravel, riverbeds, mud, snow, rocks, and other natural terrain. Types of off-roading range in intensity, from leisure drives with unmodified vehicles to competitions with customized vehicles and professional drivers..."

[ link ]

So to me and a purpose built gravel road is, in fact surfaced with gravel. It is built for vehicles and is surface coated with a layer of stone. So I would say it is not 'unsurfaced' in any sense. In the New England states there used to be roads that were surfaced with crushed oyster shells instead. Chip & Seal is another form of semi-stable road surface that combines some combination of steel mill slag, stone and tar. But whatever the material, these types of roads are, in fact, surfaced with some material and they are built specifically for vehicles; by any definition these seem to be a formal roadway.

I guess I consider off-roading to be on anything that is NOT on a formally built roadway. A path or track that is commonly used but was not "built" in any way would be, to me, one of many forms of off-roading.

 

[Janus]

I think this topic is kind of like the difference between "jealous" and "envious". They technically mean different things, but people use them as interchangeable and you need to know the context to understand what is actually being discussed.

Off pavement and off-road could mean they same thing, but they don't. Many BDR routes, while off pavement, are not actually off road. I saw logging trucks on the WA-BDR, which I doubt anyone would consider "off-road" vehicles