DCT Experience

ST13Fred

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IMO this NC w/its' unique to the market offset crank throw (for even side wall pressure) and tranny that will never allow one to lug the engine
would seem capable of far more miles before needing a refresh than anything in the 700cc class.
DCT always keeps the engine in the correct rev range down low while paddle shifting makes it a hoot to ride...............unlike any other.
 

670cc

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IMO this NC w/its' unique to the market offset crank throw (for even side wall pressure) and tranny that will never allow one to lug the engine
would seem capable of far more miles before needing a refresh than anything in the 700cc class.
DCT always keeps the engine in the correct rev range down low while paddle shifting makes it a hoot to ride...............unlike any other.

The NC’s 270 degree crank is nice but it is not at all unique to the market.

https://www.bikesmedia.in/reviews/the-magic-of-270-degrees-crank.html


 
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greenboy

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The NC’s 270 degree crank is nice but it is not at all unique to the market. {...}

Yeah, some of us have said a time or two we'd like to see the NC700X engine in a true adventure bike. Yamaha's recent Ténéré 700 uses a 270-degree straight twin engine that's been around a long time and has a reputation for being ultra reliable.
 

dduelin

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The Honda crankshaft is unique in the sense it is cast as a 360 degree crankshaft and while the metal is still plastic the two halves are twisted mechanically another 90 degrees and left to cool. Honda pioneered this production technique to save time and steel as it takes less time and creates less waste than casting a 270 and machining that to the finished product. I'm not a machinist but that was part of the NC engine concept press release in 2011. Another thing is the front and rear brake disks are made from the same piece of steel. The drop created by cutting out the interior of the front disk is used to make the rear disk.
 

ST13Fred

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The NC’s 270 degree crank is nice but it is not at all unique to the market.

The NCs' offset crank throw allowing no uneven power stroke wall pressure is what intrigues me about this power plant and not aware of any engine like it.
Ducatis' valve actuation having no springs is another intriguing design.
 

670cc

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The NCs' offset crank throw allowing no uneven power stroke wall pressure is what intrigues me about this power plant and not aware of any engine like it.
Ducatis' valve actuation having no springs is another intriguing design.
You mentioned the “offset crank” in a June 6 post as well. Can you offer a more elaborate description of this offset crank?

Do you mean cylinder offset, like a desaxe engine? Like what Honda used on the CBR250R, or Kawasaki used on the Ninja ZX-10R? Below are links to two articles on motorcycle desaxe engines.

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/256853/free-power-offset-cylinders-explained/


0CC67648-9D7E-48E6-9D1A-E59B91DACD19.jpeg
 
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ST13Fred

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You mentioned the “offset crank” in a June 6 post as well. Can you offer a more elaborate description of this offset crank?
Do you mean cylinder offset, like a desaxe engine? Like what Honda used on the CBR250R, or Kawasaki used on the Ninja ZX-10R? Below are links to two articles on motorcycle desaxe engines.

Yea, it could be described either way, one offset from the other. But I can't find where I read it. MCN Oct 2012 and Motorcyclist long term update article (no date) do not talk of this.
But DCT and the offset feature drove me to the NC. So the CBR and Ninja may have had this feature but may not be that big a deal or everybody would have it.
Now I'm wondering does the NC have it or not.
 

670cc

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Yea, it could be described either way, one offset from the other. But I can't find where I read it. MCN Oct 2012 and Motorcyclist long term update article (no date) do not talk of this.
But DCT and the offset feature drove me to the NC. So the CBR and Ninja may have had this feature but may not be that big a deal or everybody would have it.
Now I'm wondering does the NC have it or not.
I just looked through the MCN, Cycle World, Kevin Ash, and Honda technical articles and could not find reference to crank or cylinder offset in the NC engine. It seems the NC would be a good candidate for this arrangement, but it wasn’t mentioned. dduelin has a library of NC700 articles. If anyone might know, he would.
 

dduelin

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I have seen nothing in Honda design literature that suggests the NC engine has an offset crankshaft as shown in the post above. Indeed, when the NC 'New Concept' motorcycle was released to the motorcycling world in 2011 Honda pulled out the stops in regards to highlighting technical design details of the NC. The press packet was 34 pages long and they must have invited and hosted many journalists due to the sheer number of first look or first ride reviews that appeared in late 2011 and early 2012 in European and North American magazines. For such a low budget bike Honda had a lot riding on the design platform and it held up to the early reviews. The engine does have some interesting design details for a "budget" bike - the intake valve timing is not the same for both cylinders for enhanced volumetric efficiency and the lightweight aluminum roller bearing valve lifters & narrower than normal crankshaft bearings reduce internal friction. Something seen previously on high output 600 and 1000cc Honda sport bike engines - a low friction resin coating on the pistons - was applied to the NC pistons. I think if Honda had not played up the design brief of high mileage and high efficiency and host of details present to help achieve those goals it would have been a 50 hp flop in a sea of 55-70 hp 650cc competitors.
 

ST13Fred

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I remember reading also, as dduelin mentioned the roller bearings feature. Only gear heads are interested in the internal workings of an engine so one may read about it at the intro as I did back in 2012 and never again.
I'm sure one could go back to all the reviews in 2012 and eventually find more NC engine detail because I know I read it somewhere and I think it was on their Power Sports site, back then.
I wrote them asking for a link for more engine detail........but will be surprised if they deliver.
 

omniphil

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and tranny that will never allow one to lug the engine

I have wondered about this as in "D" mode its gets to 6th gear pretty quickly and with a fair amount of twist of the throttle stays in 6th and certainly feels like its lugging/work hard down low...
 

ST13Fred

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The NC computer upshifts way too early for my liking, which is why I always use the more enjoyable paddle shifting.
This engine, however, is mildly tuned and assume the computer will never allow the bearings to get too hot. It will downshift at some point of throttle opening.
 

Red Rider

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LOL.

The DCT will do anything you want it to do. Ride it leisurely and just poke along, or ride it aggressively, hard and fast. And the shifts are instantaneous - no lag between gear changes whatsoever.

Anyone having a “problem” with perceived lugging and lack of acceleration-on-demand just haven’t yet learned how to operate it fully. There’s a rider on this forum who runs one of his two DCT’s at the racetrack!

C’mon, man. This bike ain’t no slouch. Just master the modes and learn how and when to provide your own inputs.
 
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TacomaJD

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Yea, it could be described either way, one offset from the other. But I can't find where I read it. MCN Oct 2012 and Motorcyclist long term update article (no date) do not talk of this.
But DCT and the offset feature drove me to the NC. So the CBR and Ninja may have had this feature but may not be that big a deal or everybody would have it.
Now I'm wondering does the NC have it or not.

So you say the DCT and the offset feature are what drove you to the NC, but it sounds like you aren't even sure what was offset and how it benefits? I find that odd, unless you just put an awful lot of faith in MCN reviews or whoever may have written the article claiming this offset was something fantastic.

And yes, the DCT will do anything you want. Yes D mode upshifts too quickly but that is what it was designed to do....minimize rpms in the name of fuel economy. Put it in Sport mode and rock out. Or if you have a newer DCT that has the 3 different Sport modes, choose one and kick ass! If you desire to be in another gear, override the auto shifting and push a shift trigger up or down a gear.

If riding aggressively, I use manual mode only and control all shifts. If riding normal, which is still usually fairly aggressive, I use Sport mode, more specifically S1 mode. If in Sport mode, almost always I override the auto shifting and use the shift triggers for downshifts when coming to a stop because I like to use engine braking. Sometimes I use the shift triggers to override auto shifts on upshifts too if I want it to be in a higher or lower gear to either cruise at lower rpm's or gear down to pass a car. I don't have to do this, I choose to. But either way, shifting with your finger and thumb every now and then while in auto mode is still more simple and less laborious than working a clutch and gear lever.

I ride DCT because I am a left leg below knee amputee. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Before losing my leg, I wouldn't have batted an eye at a bike with DCT.....but knowing what I know now, I would opt for one even if I had both legs. It's a real pleasure to ride. I have a 2013 NC700X and a 2016 NC700X. I use the 2013 model on track and shift manually the whole time. Aside from the low powered engine, the DCT work phenomenally on track. Seamless shifting is great. I can downshift or upshift mid turn with my knee on the ground and it does not want to lose traction or upset the chassis.

I'm with Greenboy and Red Rider, the DCT isn't some sort of complex tool to figure out, it's easy to learn how to manipulate and get used to, and more than capable of catering to every kind of riding style.
 

drdubb

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I love my DCT. When I first got the bike, I rode D mode to get great mileage, heck with that, I now ride mostly in S mode. Just like it better.
The only problem I have is when I forget to downshift at stops with my Himalayan.
 

ST13Fred

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it sounds like you aren't even sure what was offset and how it benefits? I find that odd

It's a real pleasure to ride.

Offset meaning ring sidewall pressure is the same all the way around the rings; meaning even wear.
Long term this may or may not mean anything.

I agree, one DCT ride and no one ever looks back.
 

670cc

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I agree, one DCT ride and no one ever looks back.
Agreed. I have done many DCT test rides on all the Honda DCT models and I have never looked back.

It left no doubt that I just love a manual clutch and foot shift lever. :)
 

mrbios

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Before I got my 2012 non-dct this time last year I was afraid of the DCT. I hear about issues where the bike would stall and could not be restarted until it cooled down? That scared me off. But in the future I could be game as shifting is kind of a drag. Overall, really love the NC700X.
 

EastTenn

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I wanted a NC700. Never really thought much about getting one with DCT. There were not many used ones for sale in my area, and the first one I found was a DCT with only 1400 miles. It was showroom new, so I thought..what the heck. Sometimes I kind of miss the clutch and shifter, but overall I like the DCT. When you are in stop and go traffic, its so much easier to not grab that clutch lever every few seconds. ☺
I can understand why some like it and some dont. I am just glad both points of view have an option with this bike.
 
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