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Cold weather Ignition issues again.

fleetingyouth

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Ok like clockwork it is Nov and for the 3rd year in a row, I am having issues on some cold days starting the bike. The first instance this year was on the first day it got really cold and has happened a couple of times in the last week. Sometimes it won't start but once I get it started it will start fine later that day. Other times it starts fine then won't start later that day. The only common factor is cold weather.

I re-read my old threads to see what I have done and have been advised in the past before posting this new thread. I will try to describe everything I know and be clear so as to not rehash old info.

When the bike won't start the battery has a full charge. When I hit the starter switch the battery volts drop as if it is under load. The bike makes 2 clicks but the engine is not turning over. It sounds exactly like when you have a dead battery but not a fully drained battery. However, the electronics do not shut off or flicker when starting the bike like when the battery is dead, well because the battery is not dead. When the bike is running it is recharging over 14v with no issue.

If I bridge the starter switch relay(solenoid) the bike will start right up every time. Last spring the forum consensus was to replace the relay with a new one which I did this summer.
Once the weather gets over 50 degrees the issue never happens again. So this is the first time since replacing the relay. I also inspected the starter but did not test it because I wasn't having any issues during the summer. I did not see any issues or corrosion.

I just added some aux wiring to the bike via the accessory harness and directly to the battery but other than a volt meter there is no significant additional draw at start-up. Plus the issue has happened in previous years exactly the same. I cleaned all the connections and terminals when I did the install. I also cleaned the cable ends to the new relay when I installed it.

The battery is fairly new and has been tested at advanced auto to be fine. Plus this happened on the old battery as well as this battery in previous years. I also tried another not new but working battery with the same results. I'm not saying it isn't the battery but it doesn't seem to be the sole issue.

The starter relay is brand new and while it's possible it could also be bad that seems unlikely. I suspect the 2 clicks I hear are the relay open and close clicks. Is it possible the relay isn't being kept open long enough to send the full voltage through to the starter? How about something wrong with the wire from the starter switch to the relay? how much voltage is sent between the switch and relay to keep it open? 12v? Could a bad wire or contact somewhere between those two points be affected by cold weather?

I looked in the manual and it shows how to test the voltage from the starter switch to the relay. It says if there is battery voltage with the ignition on it is normal. I assume that means if it shows the same voltage as the battery it is normal. I checked it and that seemed to be the case but the bike was working so I will check again if it doesn't start in the next couple of days.

Working through the diagram if the battery voltage is good and the relay clicks all circuits should be closed ruling out any safety sensor. If bridging the relay works then it seems safe to assume the cable from the battery to the relay is fine and the cable from the relay to the starter is fine.

This has been a long pain to fix and I think I must be getting close. I can replace the starter switch pretty easily if I have to but Id like to know if that is actually the issue.
So any help in how I can test or rule that out? I have the manual and will try the tests referenced in section 6-11 the next time the bike won't start. I think I understand what it is saying.

Thanks in advance and I hope I've been clear in explaining.

Mike
 
OK, but why two clicks?
You hit the starter switch and you should get one click.
Now if everything is working right you would not hear that click since the engine would be turning and starting.
You turn the key on,
the fuel pumps does its thing,
then you push the starter button,
one click would be common - the right thing.
So when it doesnt start again - get your meter out and check ---
battery volts with key off
battery volts with key on
battery volts when starter button pushed - check that it might change values with the two clicks
on the solenoid one side should show battery volts, the other nothing.
what happens when you push the starter button?
 
See this thread......

 
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Ok Griff I did like Greg suggested in that thread and grounded the starter switch relay to the battery and it did start. So based on what was suggested it might be a ground issue.

How do I go about tracking down the exact fault in the ground line? I looked at the wiring diagram but I'm not great at diagnosing electrical issues.
If it isn't the actual grounding bolt then it could be any wire in the series correct? Also since it only happens in cold weather and is inconsistent does that offer any clue as to what I should be looking for? A nicked wire or connection point etc?

It looks like the ground wire goes from the relay switch directly to the starter relay. Could the relay be the issue?

My multimeter seems to not be working consistently when I go out into the cold so I think I need to pick up a new one to better test going forward. But it seems this is a step in the right direction.
 
If it works when you ground the G/R wire then you have a problem with what is controlling the starter solenoid.
The relay acts like a switch. When battery power is applied to the BI/W wire from the starter button, it causes the switch to close.
Meaning- The G/R wire is allowed to touch the G wire (which is grounded), and the starter turns.
When you release the starter button the two wires G/R and G are not touching.
The G wire is always on ground. That is a ground symbol on the bottom left of that wire.
So it seems the ground on G is not good. That is where you start.
And you should have a working meter with an ohms setting that give a sound when you touch the two meter leads together. Makes for better wire tracing.
A meter lead on each side of a wire will give a sound and you know that wire is good.
 
OK I think I can follow what you're saying. Looking at the wiring diagram the G/R wire goes from the relay switch to the starter relay, to junction G, then all over including to a grounding bolt. I think this bolt is under the seat.
Is the G wire the Bl wire that grounds the starter from the battery? I don't see any direct ground to the relay switch. So is that the wire you're suggesting I should check first?

Is it possible the bad ground could be on the other side of the relay switch or the G/R pin into the switch itself?

Thanks for your help so far
 
What are the climatic conditions in your area of residence where you most often ride a motorcycle at this time of year? Is there a noticeable effect of cold moist air with a high salt content? There is a problem of accelerated corrosion of components and electrical connections in many areas close to the sea. Salt water is also a relatively good conductor of electricity. Under certain conditions, electric current may even be shunted to ground, reducing the efficiency of the electrical circuit. This is a slow process often unnoticed.
 
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