Black or White?

[MZ5]

I think it’s obvious why any person or organization _should_ expect the apparently-strong (based on visual appearance) chin bar of a modular to be as protective as a full-face helmet’s chin bar. If that chin bar isn’t particularly better than an extra-tall visor, why would a rider choose it? Again, I think the answer is obvious: its appearance makes a rider _think_ it’ll protect better. If it doesn’t deliver on that sales promise, if they aren’t what they appear to be, I think that’s a problem that needs to be made clear.

I am confident that helmet manufacturers have a very good idea ahead of time whether any model of their helmets can pass Snell (or DOT, or ECE) tests or not. They don’t submit them if they know or reasonably believe they won’t. I believe that’s the primary reason we don’t see more Snell-certified helmets than we do.

I’ve visited with the Snell people a fair amount, at motorcycle shows, over the phone, and via email. I also read the technical pieces on their site, crash data from Europe, Australia, the USA, and other people’s articles or pieces about helmet testing, both those who support Snell and those who oppose them. Looking at everything, I think Snell’s testing is by far the best available to us at this point.

 

[melensdad]

...
I am confident that helmet manufacturers have a very good idea ahead of time whether any model of their helmets can pass Snell (or DOT, or ECE) tests or not. They don’t submit them if they know or reasonably believe they won’t. I believe that’s the primary reason we don’t see more Snell-certified helmets than we do.

... I think Snell’s testing is by far the best available to us at this point.

I would add the COST to have Snell test a helmet design, especially if there is only a marginal chance it will pass their test, as another reason why we don't see more Snell certified helmets.

With you, I also agree Snell has the best, even if imperfect, current test. The fact that they constantly update their testing standards every few years, focusing on increasing safety, seems to insure that new information on crash safety is always taken into consideration. DOT testing standards seem to change at the speed of bureaucracy while using the logic of political whim.

 

[dduelin]

While the angels dance on the head of this particular pin, I bought lunch Friday for a good friend who’s had the misfortune of two get-offs from deer strikes within three years.

With the first one he was looking at the GPS speed at impact, 77 mph, and he tumbled 250 feet down a paved road before stopping. His Roadcrafter did it’s job and his major injuries were a broken leg. His Shoei modular was abraded on all quadrants and the chin bar was heavily damaged from grinding yet did not detach or open. With the second event his bike end-over-ended at 50 to 60 mph and he was launched out ahead of the bike and landed in a head first face plant on a dirt road. Three vertebrae broken in his neck. He’s extremely lucky to be alive, much less walking and even riding again. His Nolan modular was scuffed and slightly misshaped. The chin bar did not break or open though the bar was very hard to open.

These are anecdotal experiences of course, like another acquaintance killed in yet another deer strike several years ago. His internal injuries killed him and his Arai FF had hardly a scuff.

There are so many factors at play in an accident. Get a good helmet that fits correctly and wear the gear. If you believe the studies, get a white or light colored one if you want to increase visibility. I’m not worried about Snell or DOT. I pick helmets on features and fit. In the end it comes down to how you hit the thing that stops you, and that is out of my hands.

 

[TacomaJD]

I was wearing DOT only approved full face Icon helmet when I crashed on the interstate and got flung into the woods around 90mph. Still got the helmet (keepsake).

I'd bet an extremely high percentage of fatal motorcycle crashes have little to do with whether their helmet was snell or DOT approved. There's 1,000 different ways you can get killed in a crash no matter how good of a helmet you wear.

I feel some things like this are overanalyzed to the point of nitpicking specs that really just don't make a significant real world difference. I wouldn't worry so much about DOT or Snell as I would simply being sure you are wearing one that is protective all around, example - full face or modular. Obviously you can't expect good crash results with 3/4 or 1/2 helmets, so long as you are wearing a DOT or Snell full face or modular of any decent brand, I feel like that's what matters most.

I'd bet the number of accidents are very low where someone could feasibly say "well, if they'd been wearing a Snell approved full face instead of just a DOT approved full face helmet, they'd have lived."

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[melensdad]

We are splitting hairs on this topic at this point.

I'd bet an extremely high percentage of fatal motorcycle crashes have little to do with whether their helmet was snell or DOT approved. There's 1,000 different ways you can get killed in a crash no matter how good of a helmet you wear.

Stats show that most who get killed in a crash had no helmet at all.

Snell, DOT or Joe-Bob's homemade hold-my-beer hillbilly hammer test . . . fact of the matter is any protective helmet is better than none.

 

[Rapturee]

!!...Amen...!! :{)

 

[indyDean]

Returned to riding recently. Went with the white helmet this time - previously I chose black. Almost bought a black leather jacket this weekend but decided to hold out for a lighter color. Definitely focused on visibility this time. Small city so no gear options locally but I may get up to Indianapolis this weekend and see if I can find some gear.

 

[rippin209]

It gets hot where I live so I got white jacket, gloves and helmet in an effort to absorb less sunlight.

I'm sure visibility is better then if I was wearing black but people run into red and yellow delivery trucks, police vehicles and stationary objects, just consider yourself invisible no matter what you look like, heck some of the ones that do see you want to run you down anyway

 

[Dellaster]

Returned to riding recently. Went with the white helmet this time - previously I chose black. Almost bought a black leather jacket this weekend but decided to hold out for a lighter color. Definitely focused on visibility this time. Small city so no gear options locally but I may get up to Indianapolis this weekend and see if I can find some gear.

Good luck!

I’m probably going to end up with light grey+black on the textile jacket to match the white helmet. Possibly with Hi-Vis highlights. I happen to like the look of such outfits and it’ll go with my new (to me) light silver and black bike. Currently I have a Hi-Vis mesh jacket plus black mesh pants. I did the all-black leather jacket & leggings before that.

Proper motorcycle boots instead of hiking ones will also be on my shopping list.

 

[CaptDL]

Marana Az PD went to all black bikes, uniforms, helmets, a couple of years ago. In mild to heavy daytime city traffic they are INVISIBLE.

 

[TacomaJD]

Rode to work today in my Snell approved brain bucket. Ok, maybe it's not Snell approved....or even DOT approved. But with half helmets, I don't think it matters regardless. LOL

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[Dellaster]

Marana Az PD went to all black bikes, uniforms, helmets, a couple of years ago. In mild to heavy daytime city traffic they are INVISIBLE.

Maybe the stealthiness is intentional? The better to sneak up on speeders and other revenue-enhancement targets?

 

[CaptDL]

Maybe the stealthiness is intentional? The better to sneak up on speeders and other revenue-enhancement targets?

I think it would be a poor argument to trade Officer safety for turn signal violation ticket $. There's plenty of 4 wheel plainclothes LE vehicles down here.

 

[rippin209]

Rode to work today in my Snell approved brain bucket. Ok, maybe it's not Snell approved....or even DOT approved. But with half helmets, I don't think it matters regardless. LOL

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And there's no squid ignorance excuse, you know better [emoji17]

 

[TacomaJD]

And there's no squid ignorance excuse, you know better [emoji17]

LOL I know, right. Like I've said before, it's all subjective and depends on the level of risk one is willing to accept. In a lot of cases, I don't lead by example.

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[dduelin]

There is some science behind the common sense of trying to stand out from the background.

Motorcycle rider conspicuity and crash related injury: case-control study

 

[Dellaster]

The Schuberth C3 Lite modular fits very snugly, as they say it should, and it’s comfy so the Amazon box containing the Bell SRT modular is heading back unopened. I took a ride and was disappointed at the noise... then stood up and everything went silent. Huh, so it needs clean air, eh? (My KLX250 has a cheap aftermarket screen.) I’ll have to see how the windscreen on the new bike behaves with it. Otherwise, it's everything I was hoping for. A drastic improvement over the full-face LS2 w/“adventure beak” that I had.

 

[melensdad]

Curious about the size and if it fits in the Frunk

 

[GregC]

The Schuberth C3 Lite modular fits very snugly, as they say it should, and it’s comfy so the Amazon box containing the Bell SRT modular is heading back unopened. I took a ride and was disappointed at the noise... then stood up and everything went silent. Huh, so it needs clean air, eh? (My KLX250 has a cheap aftermarket screen.) I’ll have to see how the windscreen on the new bike behaves with it. Otherwise, it's everything I was hoping for. A drastic improvement over the full-face LS2 w/“adventure beak” that I had.

My C3 Pro loves clean air. I have a large CalSci screen, and while it’s pretty quiet behind the screen, if I stand the noise drops to basically what it sounds like in an airliner at cruise altitude. The C3 is designed in a wind tunnel to be very quiet, so I think it likes clear air best.

I still use the CalSci for weather protection and live with a little more noise.


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[Dellaster]

Curious about the size and if it fits in the Frunk

Can’t answer that, but be aware that the C3 (all variations) only has two shell sizes, with the larger one starting at XL. The smaller might fit the frunk while the larger won’t ‘cause I’ve read that there’s an appreciable size jump.