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Bike won’t change gear

Wedders

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Latest update :- Honda dealer had all diagnostic equipment on the bike and it says dodgy speed sensor. Changed both sensors still the same so the equipment says ECU. Dealer phoned Honda to check and they agreed with the equipment. The dealer said if they fit an ECU and it’s still the same they will remove it and look for a wiring fault. Cost of ECU £1250 plus all the labour.
So watch this space
 

670cc

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So watch this space
Indeed. I expect it will be a long, interesting story.

It seems to me whenever a bad ECU is the diagnosis, it’s not a bad ECU, so we shall wait and see
 

lootzyan

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So honestly, in your own judgment, did you do something that could damage the ECU? It's not that easy. Such devices usually have protection against accidental surges or excessive current loads. It's hard to imagine in a 12 VDC system
 

Wedders

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So honestly, in your own judgment, did you do something that could damage the ECU? It's not that easy. Such devices usually have protection against accidental surges or excessive current loads. It's hard to imagine in a 12 VDC system
NO! I definitely made a conscious decision not to touch the original wiring. I am quite conversant with electronics and things, my job involved it. All the accessories I added were through an Amplink that’s an American device like a thunderbox. It’s wired direct from the battery and doesn’t touch the original wiring I can even isolate it by removing the inline fuse.
The dealer has seen all my wiring as the panels are removed and he has no problem with it.
I try my best as I’m an enthusiastic amateur.
 

lootzyan

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Now, I'm confused considering what you said before and now. If you're "quite conversant with electronics and things" and you like to do things yourself, why not buy a Service Manual for around £40, a simple multimeter for £10. DTC troubleshooting is pretty well documented in the Service Manual. The savings in repair costs could be quite large.
 

Wedders

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Now, I'm confused considering what you said before and now. If you're "quite conversant with electronics and things" and you like to do things yourself, why not buy a Service Manual for around £40, a simple multimeter for £10. DTC troubleshooting is pretty well documented in the Service Manual. The savings in repair costs could be quite large.
I have 2 Fluke meters and a service manual but the diagnostics became too complicated for me everyone has their limits. Even the Honda engineers are confused by it.
 

Wedders

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Honda phoned me today saying they have tested everything and put the fault down to the ecu. Told them to order one and hope they are right at £1250 for the part. Will keep you posted.
 

670cc

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Not yet bike still in Honda Dealers, they are as baffled as me. Someone said in an earlier post that it only needed a multimeter and manual???
It’s just my observation based on anecdotes, but when Honda dealers are baffled about a broken NC motorcycle, it seems it’s almost always a DCT problem. It suggests to me that Honda did not design good diagnostics for their DCT, and/or Honda’s technical support to dealers is poor.

Wedders, keep us posted about the problem resolution.
 

lootzyan

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...Someone said in an earlier post that it only needed a multimeter and manual???
It would be me. And I still maintain that for this type of diagnostics what you need are, for the most part, a service manual and a multimeter. This is due to the fact that all signals to the PCM are of analog type, easy to measure according to recommendations of the service manual. The only digital communication is between the combination meter and the PCM, and this works fine.
I do not think that the Honda engineer is confused with this problem, because I doubt that the dealer has a chance to consult an engineer (it is too expensive to hire one for technical consultation in cases where the technician should have sufficient knowledge).
 

Wedders

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On a lighter not I’ve just got a great deal on a Garmin 590lm Zumo with tpms sensors, all mounts and ram bits £200. Now just need a bike to put it on.
Oh forgot to add there are spare batteries for the unit and the sensors.
 

showkey

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Dealer in the US can call a “technical assistance line” where technicians on the phone can give instructions and test protocols. There are model engineers on staff and direct communication to Japan. Engineering is far more attentive to new problems and warranty problems. The phone line has a data base and system to track every call and every problem. Known issues with known fixes are or should be a slam dunk….key word should be

Now is dealer willing to spend the time, money and effort …….that’s a whole other question.
Does the dealer technician have the knowledge and skills to ask the right questions and capability to actually do the required or test requested by the techline ? That‘s the second whole other question ?

NOTE These technical assistance lines are NOT available to customers.

As far digital signals…….do not assume ABS wheel sensor might be digital on some models. Bike with traction control may also be different.
 

lootzyan

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...As far digital signals…….do not assume ABS wheel sensor might be digital on some models. ...
The ABS sensor of course does not send a digital signal. It is a simple electromagnetic device that generates modulated electrical pulses.
The signal from the ABS sensor is sent to the ABS modulator and from there to the PCM.
The only digital connection is via the TDX/RXD line (two-way serial communication system) between the display and the PCM/ECM.
It is all quite well described in the service manual.

comser (1024x870).jpg
 

showkey

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Don’t have the time to debate or copy the data on which models and years but Honda and everyone else switched ABS sensors.

Newer ABS sensors are NOT always analog ……….so do not assume they are.

Wheel speed sensor (Hall effect)​

The purpose of this test is to evaluate the operation of an Antilock Braking System (ABS) Hall effect wheel speed sensor based upon its output voltage and frequency.
 

lootzyan

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Newer ABS sensors are NOT always analog ……….so do not assume they are...
The electrical output generated in devices using the Hall effect is also analog (i.e. it can be measured in a traditional way with an electric meter).
It is obvious that I am not able to know all ABS systems, but I cannot imagine an ABS sensor containing an analog to digital signal converter (simplifying and avoiding unnecessary complications). Such a converter is certainly part of the ABS modulator and PCM.
 

Wedders

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Got the call today from the dealer to say my bike is done and road tested. They say It was the ecu they replaced and everything is A OK. I was too frightened to ask the price will leave that bit until I collect on Monday.
BTW if I haven’t mentioned it before this is the first time I have been beaten by a fault or defect and had to rely on a dealer. It probably won’t be the last I suppose it comes to us all at sometime.
 

lootzyan

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It's okay to be skeptical, especially when you have to pay high repair costs. I would not believe in such a diagnosis until I checked it myself. In this case, I would take the "faulty" device, swap it with the one installed by the dealer and see the result. Regardless of the result, I would have slept better.
 

the Ferret

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BTW if I haven’t mentioned it before this is the first time I have been beaten by a fault or defect and had to rely on a dealer. It probably won’t be the last I suppose it comes to us all at sometime.

Comes to me with everything but changing oil and adjusting the chain lol
 
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