Battery Recommendations

[DanH]

So I turned the key and pressed the starter and there wasn't enough juice to turn the engine over. No apparent cause either. So I guess my battery has just given up the ghost. What is the best battery I can buy for my 2012? What is the best value? Anything I should avoid at all costs?

 

[kharli]

I have been asking that at every opportunity and the mechanics here in Scotland and Ireland say if its a heavy battery its usually good ..they all have had good and bad experiences with cheep and expensive ones ..sorry for totally unhelpful reply . My (original jan 2012) failed after being left out for weeks in bad salty spray weather earlier this year ,but its fine now or even better after a few battery tender care charges. ,I carry my optimate icharger with me while away and keep it charged up since then . And for peace of mind bought a cheepo digital voltmeter to keep an eye on it .(which has found a zillion other uses wherever I go !)

 

[DanH]

OK, So I bought this one:

Amazon.com: YTZ12S Z12S Lithium Ion Sealed Battery 12V - 290 CCA Motorcycle Scooter ATV: Automotive

It was fairly inexpensive for a LiON battery and will eliminate a couple pounds of unsprung weight. (I learned that the other day on this forum.) Its also deep cycle 2000 cycles compared to 150-300 for most Lead Acetate batteries and has 250 cold cranking amps. The specs are good. I hope the battery is.

 

[L.B.S.]

Cool! Let us know how the thing works for you, and any interesting little notes, if remarkable

"they" say to be sure any charger used on this battery doesn't have a desulfation mode, or one that can't be switched off.

 

[DanH]

Desulfination is interesting. Sulfate crystals build up on the lead plates in a lead acetate battery, instead of dissolving during recharge, reducing its ability to be a battery. Desulfination sends high voltage pulses through the battery to break these up and extend the life of the battery. In a LiON battery, this is completely unnecessary though I don't understand how it can hurt it.

 

[NCSOTA]

For what it's worth I think the battery is sprung weight. Still good to get rid of but not as valuable as unsprung weight.

 

[670cc]

Sorry, assuming you mount the battery in the standard location, it is sprung weight. All weight carried by the springs is sprung weight. Unsprung weight is basically the wheels and tires, lower fork tubes, brake disks and calipers, rear sprocket, a percentage of the swing arm, etc.

Report back on how that battery works out. It's amazing how light weight they are.

 

[Fuzzy]

For what it's worth I think the battery is sprung weight. Still good to get rid of but not as valuable as unsprung weight.

Correct.
....

 

[Beemerphile]

Desulfination is interesting. Sulfate crystals build up on the lead plates in a lead acetate battery, instead of dissolving during recharge, reducing its ability to be a battery. Desulfination sends high voltage pulses through the battery to break these up and extend the life of the battery. In a LiON battery, this is completely unnecessary though I don't understand how it can hurt it.

On the Amazon "Lithium Ion" battery, they most likely meant to say "Lithium Iron", or LiFePO4. Lithium Ion is usually in reference to Lithium Cobalt batteries such as those used in computers. They are a lot less stable (and more dangerous) than LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron). Some will say that LiFePO4 (also called LFP) batteries are technically lithium-ion also, but that is not the normal connotation.

Using a desulfating charger can easily ruin a LiFEPO4 battery. EarthX has this to say...

"...In the event you have to charge the battery, use a “modern” lead-acid battery charger or Lithium (LiFePO4) battery charger. By “modern” we mean a charger that was built in the last 10 years that automatically turns off when the battery is fully charged (based on volts). DO NOT USE a charger that has a de-sulfate mode; an automatic de-sulfate mode; or any charger with voltage pulses above 15V! This will damage the battery. If in doubt, consult the manual that comes with your charger."

I installed an EarthX ETX36C in my NC last year. It is more battery than anyone reasonably needs - which happens to be how much battery I wanted, so I bought it. I use an Optimate Lithium charger with it. This is more an experiment than a recommendation. Probably overkill and a good AGM is probably the wiser choice. Today I am snatching out the rectifier/regulator and replacing it with a 50 amp Cycle Electrics CE 605 SB series regulator. My hope is that by series regulation (vs. shunt) that it will take some heating and wear off of the alternator stator. That is another experiment. A Cycle Electrics R/R with PM alternator has worked well on my BMW. I often rediscover that the pioneer is the guy with an arrow in his chest.

There are lots of nice cheap AGM batteries sized to replace the stock Yuasa.

 

[DanH]

Sprung, unsprung...it really makes no difference to me at all. I was really just being a bit of a wise *** because I really don't understand. If this was a race bike and I was into racing, it might be something I cared about.

But yeah, I'll report back on the battery. I probably won't have much to say about it unless its really bad. If it does its job, i'm likely to forget all about it in about a month.

 

[NCSOTA]

Please let us know how this battery works for you. Obviously expensive but a service life of up to 8 years may help offset some of that.
The Optimate lithium charger is probably unnecessary since the EarthX battery has built in BMS circuitry to balance the cells already.
I have been impressed with the light weight and flat discharge curve of LiFePO4 batteries I have used in my Ham Radio hobby to power an Elecraft Kx3. Bioenno is another American company making good LiFePO4 batteries and I hope they continue to come down in price as they become more commonly used.

 

[marotajo]

What does it mean by "No maintenance needed for almost a year"?

 

[L.B.S.]

What does it mean by "No maintenance needed for almost a year"?

My best guess is that they mean a fully charged battery can sit up to a year unused under the proper conditions (ie: no parasitic drain or out in the baking sun, freezing cold, etc.) without the need for a charger to bring it back up to a specified voltage threshold. Like you park your bike for most of a year, and the battery will still have a good enough charge.

 

[Beemerphile]

The Optimate lithium charger is probably unnecessary since the EarthX battery has built in BMS circuitry to balance the cells already.

True, but the Optimate is highly enough thought of by EarthX that they sell them on their web site. A "normal" charger cannot perform the BMS reset after a low voltage trip as can the Optimate. All of the charging algorithms are specific to LiFePO4 technology. The maintenance program is especially rigorous with lots of "off" time and condition testing. It is an expensive battery and I thought it deserved the correct charger. With four street bikes, my NC spends a lot of time stuffed in a corner of my shop.

73 de K4LAD

 

[L.B.S.]

Ya, if I got one of these fancy new batteries, I would probably pony up for whatever the recommended charger was as well, figuring in for a dime, in for a dollar. It would suck and leave me always wondering, if I had a new battery problem or failure, but only had the use of a plain old battery charger. I'd forever second guess myself about whether it was me that mucked it up via the charger, or I was absolved of guilt, having stayed with the charger supposedly meant for just that application.

I'm out of my element when it comes to the intricacies of electron shuffling anyway...

 

[DanH]

My best guess is that they mean a fully charged battery can sit up to a year unused under the proper conditions (ie: no parasitic drain or out in the baking sun, freezing cold, etc.) without the need for a charger to bring it back up to a specified voltage threshold. Like you park your bike for most of a year, and the battery will still have a good enough charge.

Yes, that is what they mean. You never have to add fluid or anything like that. They recommend that you only charge when the battery drops below 50%. If you ride regularily all year round or disconnect the battery when you park for the winter, you should never have to put a charger on it.

 

[Antarius]

You will do just fine with that battery. Don't need to worry about it.

 

[DanH]

Ya, if I got one of these fancy new batteries, I would probably pony up for whatever the recommended charger was as well, figuring in for a dime, in for a dollar. It would suck and leave me always wondering, if I had a new battery problem or failure, but only had the use of a plain old battery charger. I'd forever second guess myself about whether it was me that mucked it up via the charger, or I was absolved of guilt, having stayed with the charger supposedly meant for just that application.

I'm out of my element when it comes to the intricacies of electron shuffling anyway...

They say you can use a regular charger as long as you disconnect as soon as charging is complete. It's the long cycle charging with the lead acetate battery chargers, weeks and months, that damages the Lithium batteries.