4.5 liters on oil change with over sized filter

omniphil

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2020
Messages
20
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
NH
Visit site
I did my first oil change the other day and I opted to use a Mobil 1 M1-110 filter as they are fairly common and larger. (I like to have more oil and more filter, keeps things cleaner)
My bike is a DCT and I did the DCT filter as well. Once I had the drain plug, dct cover and oil filter off I rocked the bike to either side and got even more oil out than it just sitting on the side stand or center stand.

Threw in new filters and sealed up the oil drain and started adding oil. at about 4 liters I thought I could see a tiny bit of oil on the bottom of the dipstick, I took the bike for a spin to warm it up and get the oil pumping through the new filters.
Came back put it on the center stand waited 10 minutes and checked the oil. I had to put in another .5 liter until it showed at the full line on one side of the dipstick (Dipstick goes in at a weird angle and the 2 sides of the dipstick show different readings, I went with the side of the dipstick facing down into the oil)

The M1-110 filter doesn't appear to be that much bigger, but the dipstick levels look good with 4.5 liters in there, was not expecting to be able to get that much in there.
 
Last edited:

TacomaJD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
319
Points
78
Location
Northeast Alabama
Visit site
Check the oil on the side stand or straight up and down? The dipstick has a line at the bottom and line at the top, as long as it is in between, should be good. Doesn't seem like putting that much oil in it was necessary, but might not hurt it. You'll know if it does if it starts weeping oil in various places. Lol

I stick to oem filter and oem recommended qty and don't even check it with the dipstick. If Honda engineers plainly state what to put in it, they aren't wrong. I understand your reasoning for running the larger filter, but the likelihood of it making much of a difference is slim. That being said, I have had a couple Yamaha Roadstar Warrior cruisers and there was the same thing about those bikes on the forum where everyone ran a longer filter, I did too, because why not. But looking back, probably wasn't necessary...
 

omniphil

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2020
Messages
20
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
NH
Visit site
Check the oil on the side stand or straight up and down? The dipstick has a line at the bottom and line at the top, as long as it is in between, should be good. Doesn't seem like putting that much oil in it was necessary, but might not hurt it. You'll know if it does if it starts weeping oil in various places. Lol

I stick to oem filter and oem recommended qty and don't even check it with the dipstick. If Honda engineers plainly state what to put in it, they aren't wrong. I understand your reasoning for running the larger filter, but the likelihood of it making much of a difference is slim. That being said, I have had a couple Yamaha Roadstar Warrior cruisers and there was the same thing about those bikes on the forum where everyone ran a longer filter, I did too, because why not. But looking back, probably wasn't necessary...

I checked it on the center stand.
I agree, it's probably not needed, but it'll run cooler with more oil and the car filters are much easier to find in the stores.
I have a few cars with DCT's and you certainly want to keep that fluid clean and fresh. DCT's at least in cars are way more expensive than some of the engines, they also are very hard to repair, many manufactures can't open them and repair them, they just replace the whole unit at considerable cost.

I am a big fan of DCTs, I am surprised we can get these on motorcycles, But I am certainly loving it so far.
 

davidc83

Site Supporter
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
2,277
Reaction score
211
Points
63
Location
Southern Indiana/Central Florida-part time snow bi
Visit site
By bigger, do you mean longer or a larger diameter? If larger diameter, how is it getting a seal on the upper part of the filter housing?
If longer, that thing must be sticking way out there, as with a normal change and normal filter, should only take 3.4 L(3400 mls). You put in 4.5 liters, which is 1.1 liter more which is approximately a quart (32 oz). The method you mentioned you used to check the oil is not what is listed in the Honda service manual (page 3-12)....With cold engine, with bike in upright position, start the engine and let idle 3-5 minutes. Stop the engine and wait 2-3 minutes. remove the dipstick and wipe clean. Install the dipstick, do NOT screw it, remove dipstick and check the level.
I have never got a very accurate read on the oil level after a ride....it takes time for the oil to drain back and in my bike (now with 58,000+ miles on it), it does make a difference.
 

670cc

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Mods
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
7,864
Reaction score
853
Points
113
Location
USA
Visit site
Can you post a photo of this M1-110 filter, installed? It must be quite large to hold an extra liter of oil. That, or it sounds like the crankcase is a bit overfilled.
 

lootzyan

Active Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2012
Messages
631
Reaction score
27
Points
28
Location
US
Visit site
This is from the Owner's Manual.

Oil.jpg

This is common knowledge (or at least it was) for most technicians and mechanics of combustion engine.
As for the size of the oil filter. The filter is matched to the performance of the oil pump.
 

Doc True

Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
252
Reaction score
33
Points
28
Location
Loonyville, KY
Visit site
I stick to oem filter and oem recommended qty and don't even check it with the dipstick. If Honda engineers plainly state what to put in it, they aren't wrong. I understand your reasoning for running the larger filter, but the likelihood of it making much of a difference is slim. That being said, I have had a couple Yamaha Roadstar Warrior cruisers and there was the same thing about those bikes on the forum where everyone ran a longer filter, I did too, because why not. But looking back, probably wasn't necessary...

I get this thought process. However, if the Honda engineers wanted me to trust their quantity calculations, they wouldn't have installed a dipstick

I work with engineers and they make stuff up all the time. I used to be amazed at how many design parameters were pulled out of their butts. Now I just assume they all are
 

Doc True

Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
252
Reaction score
33
Points
28
Location
Loonyville, KY
Visit site
We've had an in-depth discussion on the use of a filter from a Civic in another thread. The consensus was that it would not harm the engine and the ability to pass oil was exactly the same. The only differences being more filter material and slightly more oil capacity. It was a very informative thread
 

TacomaJD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
319
Points
78
Location
Northeast Alabama
Visit site
I checked it on the center stand.
I agree, it's probably not needed, but it'll run cooler with more oil and the car filters are much easier to find in the stores.
I have a few cars with DCT's and you certainly want to keep that fluid clean and fresh. DCT's at least in cars are way more expensive than some of the engines, they also are very hard to repair, many manufactures can't open them and repair them, they just replace the whole unit at considerable cost.

I am a big fan of DCTs, I am surprised we can get these on motorcycles, But I am certainly loving it so far.

All I'm saying is if the results of running cooler were quantified by what little extra oil a slightly longer filter will hold, it probably wouldn't amount to much. These engines are relatively low performance and are water cooled. And the DCT comes with a 2nd filter for the very reason of keeping the oil cleaned, I just don't feel running a longer filter makes that much of a difference. However, I realize the simplicity of this "mod" and to each their own in that respect.


I do also think the crankcase might be a bit overfull though if you legit put over a quart more in the engine. Reminds me of when I first changed the oil on my Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad 5 yrs ago for the first time after buying it. Not sure who changed oil for the previous owner, but they did not know what they were doing. Calls for 3.3 qts with filter change, I started draining the oil and got worried when it went past the line in the catchpan that said 4 qts, then on past the 5 qt line... Over 5 qts came out and its only supposed to hold 3.5 qts if bone dry. Luckily I have put 20k miles on it since with no leaks anywhere.

FB_IMG_1598618797526.jpg
 

TacomaJD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
319
Points
78
Location
Northeast Alabama
Visit site
I get this thought process. However, if the Honda engineers wanted me to trust their quantity calculations, they wouldn't have installed a dipstick

I work with engineers and they make stuff up all the time. I used to be amazed at how many design parameters were pulled out of their butts. Now I just assume they all are

So by that logic, why do you trust a dipstick gauge...the same engineers that designed the dipstick guage also calculated how much oil the engine needs to stay properly lubricated.
 

670cc

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Mods
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
7,864
Reaction score
853
Points
113
Location
USA
Visit site
.......I stick to oem filter and oem recommended qty and don't even check it with the dipstick. If Honda engineers plainly state what to put in it, they aren't wrong......

I agree on installing the recommended oil quantity. The dipstick level measurememt is subject to variables. Was the bike straight up and down, how long was oil allowed to drain back to the sump, at what angle was the dipstick inserted, etc. With the Goldwing I got frustrated with inconsistent dipstick readings, so eventually I decided I‘ll just pour in four quarts and usually leave it until I drain it 8000 miles later. Same now on the NC. Pour in about 3.5 quarts. Look at dipstick and if there is oil on it, leave it be and probably even forget to check it until draining it 8000 miles later.
 

TacomaJD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
319
Points
78
Location
Northeast Alabama
Visit site
I agree on installing the recommended oil quantity. The dipstick level measurememt is subject to variables. Was the bike straight up and down, how long was oil allowed to drain back to the sump, at what angle was the dipstick inserted, etc. With the Goldwing I got frustrated with inconsistent dipstick readings, so eventually I decided I‘ll just pour in four quarts and usually leave it until I drain it 8000 miles later. Same now on the NC. Pour in about 3.5 quarts. Look at dipstick and if there is oil on it, leave it be and probably even forget to check it until draining it 8000 miles later.

It's easy to overthink things like this until you reach a point of frustration and then realize it wasn't anything worth overthinking to begin with. I fully agree with your method, and I do the same!

I always have to remind myself...I know a lot of people that ride and have ran into a lot of riders over the years. I've been active on NUMEROUS bike forums, and outside of dedicated (abused) track bikes losing engines, I can only think of one particular bike that lost an engine and it was a Vulcan Nomad like the one I have, driven by my buddies grandpa, and then son. The grandpa put over 100k miles on it, had a heart attack on it while backing it out of his driveway, fell over dead right there, his son continued riding it another few years with no telling how many miles on it now before the engine finally gave up.

I think we get too caught up and stuck on what's best for our engines, part of this could be blamed on marketing of course, but I think as long as you put the correct oil and filter in, and don't abuse or neglect it, most bikes will last longer than your ownership of them without problems. Except for Ducatis.....haha gotta throw that in there.
 

670cc

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Mods
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
7,864
Reaction score
853
Points
113
Location
USA
Visit site
It's easy to overthink things like this until you reach a point of frustration and then realize it wasn't anything worth overthinking to begin with. I fully agree with your method, and I do the same!

I always have to remind myself...I know a lot of people that ride and have ran into a lot of riders over the years. I've been active on NUMEROUS bike forums, and outside of dedicated (abused) track bikes losing engines, I can only think of one particular bike that lost an engine and it was a Vulcan Nomad like the one I have, driven by my buddies grandpa, and then son. The grandpa put over 100k miles on it, had a heart attack on it while backing it out of his driveway, fell over dead right there, his son continued riding it another few years with no telling how many miles on it now before the engine finally gave up.

I think we get too caught up and stuck on what's best for our engines, part of this could be blamed on marketing of course, but I think as long as you put the correct oil and filter in, and don't abuse or neglect it, most bikes will last longer than your ownership of them without problems. Except for Ducatis.....haha gotta throw that in there.
I agree 100%. I think typical aggressive motor oil marketing drives people to overthink the very simple topic of engine lubrication. I also think people over focus on oil activities because it is one thing the average person can feel good about when they’ve “done something for their engine.” In my roughly 50 years of experience with many, many engines of all types, not a one failed or was damaged because of a lubrication deficiency. Until I actually witness engines failing due to lubrication issues, motor oil is not on my worry list, not even close.
 
Last edited:

TacomaJD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
319
Points
78
Location
Northeast Alabama
Visit site
I agree 100%. I think typical aggressive motor oil marketing drives people to overthink the very simple topic of engine lubrication. I also think people over focus on oil activities because it is one thing the average person can feel good about when they’ve “done something for their engine.” In my roughly 50 years of experience with many, many engines of all types, not a one failed or was damaged because of a lubrication deficiency. Until I actually witness engines failing due to lubrication issues, motor oil is not on my worry list, not even close.

Well said. The only application I say it may be worth using a high end motor oil is in any sort of racing. Because the risk of losing an extremely expensive high performance engine is much higher, using better oil capable of withstanding the elements in a race environment is a minimum price to pay in return for peace of mind.

Other than that, I can't help but chuckle when I see people so adamant about running Amsoil, Rotella, Motul, whatever in regular motorcycles, and even regular vehicles. Also feel the same way about full synthetic oils. I might be just old school in that respect though. I don't run synthetics at all. I also know of a couple particular instances where people has had slight oil weeps develop while using synthetic, swap back to conventional oil, and problem goes away.
 

davidc83

Site Supporter
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
2,277
Reaction score
211
Points
63
Location
Southern Indiana/Central Florida-part time snow bi
Visit site
Well said. The only application I say it may be worth using a high end motor oil is in any sort of racing. Because the risk of losing an extremely expensive high performance engine is much higher, using better oil capable of withstanding the elements in a race environment is a minimum price to pay in return for peace of mind.

Other than that, I can't help but chuckle when I see people so adamant about running Amsoil, Rotella, Motul, whatever in regular motorcycles, and even regular vehicles. Also feel the same way about full synthetic oils. I might be just old school in that respect though. I don't run synthetics at all. I also know of a couple particular instances where people has had slight oil weeps develop while using synthetic, swap back to conventional oil, and problem goes away.
The only machine I run synthetic in is my 2005 Toyota Prius C, which Toyota states is a requirement and the only weight of oil recommended in the owners manual is 0W60 (that is correct, not a typo)...I have never seen dino oil in 0W60 weight....I know some of the owners on the Prius chat forums use different weight, but the mileage has been greatly affected (as in 10-15% lower)... I personally use Rotella 15w40 (T4) in all my other vehicles and never had a problem (even my 102,000 mile C50 boulevard) mainly because we have 2 diesel tractors, and a diesel truck which calls for 15w40...and Rotella doesnt contain friction modifiers....back to the OP....that filter he posted is only 4" long per the spec sheet and 3" diameter-dont think it can hold approx 32oz (liter or quart)of oil to make up that 4.5 liter (4500mls) of oil which was poured in.
 

Griff

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
2,006
Reaction score
141
Points
63
Location
Wicklow Ireland
Visit site
Checking the oil on the centrestand will sometimes give a false reading. Firstly You are dependant on the ground being level under the stand legs and furthermore with the rear wheel off the ground the oil is pushed to the front of the motor. The bike needs to be upright on its wheels and on level ground. As such I always check mine while holding the bike level on its wheels.
 

omniphil

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2020
Messages
20
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
NH
Visit site
The manual says that 4.1 liters would be required upon disassembly. So I think by moving the bike around during draining I got much more out than the 3.6 it lists..
The oil filter certainly isn't long enough to hold a liter of oil, it's only probably 2 inches longer.

But the dipstick reads ok, so I have to go with that. I've checked it several times now after rides.
 

TacomaJD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
319
Points
78
Location
Northeast Alabama
Visit site
Because I can see the oil on dipstick

Still does not follow your original logic, as a design engineer had to determine how long to make the dipstick and where to place the lo/hi marks on the end of it. That's the same as me saying "I physically see 3.6 qts going in the fill hole and that's good enough." LOL
 
Top