2021 NC750X Suspension Travel Question

[mzflorida]

I have an Ohlins rear shock, and RaceTech gold valve emulators up front. I experimented with different front spring rates but settled back on the stock springs. The results were a big improvement but I still feel as if the front forks have too much stiction, even after 50,000 miles of break in.

Thank you.

 

[mzflorida]

I guess “need“ was a poor word choice. Nice to have is more what I meant. The roads locally are very rough. Maintainance usually means spraying oil on the bad spots, then sprinkling gravel on the oil. They often should have been totally resurfaced ten years ago, but they have been neglected. Many of the roads were originally concrete, but when the concrete joints began to crumble and the slabs shifted, they just cover it over with a layer of asphalt. But the underlying base is still poor so the joints still end up as raised repetitive “speed bumps”. Railroad crossing are also usually very rough. The beauty of the dual sport suspension in that instead of being nearly bucked off the seat as on the NC, the DS just floats over the bump as if it’s not there. No, I don’t need the whole 10” of travel, but the long travel suspension soaks up bumps very nicely.

Ahh! Thank you. Understand.

 

[bigbird]

Not going to get in a debate with you, but I entirely disagree. Because you feel a certain way, or interpret a matter with a particular bias, does not make it so. Are you drawing conclusions from scientific research or sources such as the CBC, CNN, or programs in your workplace? Please don't even begin to introduce microaggressions into this equation. And for the record, I dedicated my entire life to protecting the rights of others. I do respect that you have a unique perspective on this and I'm not going to call you any names, but I will call you out. Prove it. Prove that a good-natured joke that includes self-deprecation referencing lineage perpetuates and condones racism and bigotry. Bigotry and racism are far more complex than you are suggesting, and one does not beget the other necessarily. Is it okay for me to find offensive your characterization of me, and others, as suborning racism and bigotry? And in closing, I need no advice from you on what I should or should not consider funny.

You don't want to get into a debate with me, but then you get into a debate with me.
Make up your mind.

 

[Janus]

Upgraded suspensions are the best suspensions. Long travel is better than short travel. I will debate this forever if I have to

 

[mzflorida]

You don't want to get into a debate with me, but then you get into a debate with me.
Make up your mind.

Debates are formal and adversarial, of which my response is neither.

 

[bigbird]

Debates are formal and adversarial, of which my response is neither.

So how's your suspension travel?

 

[mzflorida]

Upgraded suspensions are the best suspensions. Long travel is better than short travel. I will debate this forever if I have to

Thanks. That makes at least two who likely know quite a bit more than I do about suspension that support if all things are equal the 18-20 MY is a better choice out of the box, or if considering an upgrade, as the suspension travel has greater potential than does the 2021 MY. This presumes that suspension, stock or upgraded, is a primary consideration. I think that I'm capturing your and 670cc's perspective.

 

[dduelin]

For a street bike, the 2021's reduced travel is just fine. The comfort and control suspensions provide are dependent on how well they absorb and dampen wheel movements, not specifically how long the travel is. On the street you normally don't need the extra travel and it can cause the bike to pitch excessively going into and out of corners if the spring rate and damping isn't set up for street use. Consider the best handling street bikes and how much travel they have - 4.5 to 5" or so. Off road is a different story.... and it's easier to ride a dual sport or adventure bike on the street than it is to ride a street bike in the dirt so long travel isn't so much of an issue on the street unless the bike is set up so soft it pitches excessively under braking and acceleration.

 

[670cc]

As dduelin suggested, long travel has it’s own problems for curvy road street use. The movement of the the suspension throughout it’s travel range alters the whole geometry of the motorcycle: rake angles change, wheelbase changes, etc. It all goes back to what I said early about the suspension requirements and setup really depends on the condition and character of the roads you most often ride. Tight, short travel suspensions don’t work for where I usually ride, even though I’m on the “street”, but your situation may differ.

 

[TacomaJD]

For a street bike, the 2021's reduced travel is just fine. The comfort and control suspensions provide are dependent on how well they absorb and dampen wheel movements, not specifically how long the travel is. On the street you normally don't need the extra travel and it can cause the bike to pitch excessively going into and out of corners if the spring rate and damping isn't set up for street use. Consider the best handling street bikes and how much travel they have - 4.5 to 5" or so. Off road is a different story.... and it's easier to ride a dual sport or adventure bike on the street than it is to ride a street bike in the dirt so long travel isn't so much of an issue on the street unless the bike is set up so soft it pitches excessively under braking and acceleration.

Dead on. There is no one size fits all approach to suspension. Not sure why many seem to forget that. As much as people want the NC line to be an offroad bike, it simply is not. As I've said before, you can hammer it down some gravel roads in the middle of a forest on an NC or a GSXR 1000....about the only difference between the two relative to that type of riding is ground clearance and the shiny full fairings on the GSXR. But as for the capability of hauling the mail down gravel roads or any sort of mild offroading, there's little to nothing about the NC other than a little extra ground clearance that makes it an "offroad" bike.

If you choose to offroad an NC and build it to be more capable offroad, there's nothing at all wrong with that. Although I do view it as kind of a square peg in the round hole approach. You aren't fitting the square peg into the round hole until you break out the grinder and knock the edges off. Of course I suppose the same could be said about me making an NC into a track bike. LOL.

 

[hulkss]

For a street bike, the 2021's reduced travel is just fine.

Yup, just learn the limitations and slow down to accommodate the short travel on a rough road.

 

[TacomaJD]

Yup, just learn the limitations and slow down to accommodate the short travel on a rough road.

The short travel isn't that big of a deal, especially on the road. Even with the "longer" travel 5.X" travel forks on the older models, the damper rod orifices can't flow enough oil quickly enough to absorb much of anything on a rough road at speed. Length of travel only matters if you can actually use all of said travel....and it's awfully hard to use all of what the NC's front forks offer because of how they are designed. They aren't designed to for long travel shock absorption like, for example, the africa twin's long travel, high damping suspension. You can mildly jump an Africa Twin, land, and go through a plush 8+" of it's travel easily......however if you were to mildly jump an NC, I would almost bet it wouldn't use all of its 5ish inches of travel because it can't flow enough fork oil through the damper rods quickly enough before it begins to rebound. Although it would be a very harsh landing and you'd probably THINK you just bottomed out the forks. Rear shock might bottom out though, because it is under-sprung and under-damped, imo. The forks on the other hand, are slightly under-sprung, but mainly over-damped.

 

[dduelin]

Yup, just learn the limitations and slow down to accommodate the short travel on a rough road.

Only if the suspension design and components require it. The suspension on my RT is supple yet firm and rough roads are soaked up like syrup in a pancake. You can look down and see the forks hammering up and down like crazy but the jolts don't come through the bars. The suspension of the Goldwing is another story and yes, it requires slowing down for rough roads with sharp edged bumps or repetitive short ones close together like a washboard. Washboard is the worst. I thought I had the forks set up real well on my 2015 NC for not a lot of money.

 

[dduelin]

The short travel isn't that big of a deal, especially on the road. Even with the "longer" travel 5.X" travel forks on the older models, the damper rod orifices can't flow enough oil quickly enough to absorb much of anything on a rough road at speed. Length of travel only matters if you can actually use all of said travel....and it's awfully hard to use all of what the NC's front forks offer because of how they are designed. They aren't designed to for long travel shock absorption like, for example, the africa twin's long travel, high damping suspension. You can mildly jump an Africa Twin, land, and go through a plush 8+" of it's travel easily......however if you were to mildly jump an NC, I would almost bet it wouldn't use all of its 5ish inches of travel because it can't flow enough fork oil through the damper rods quickly enough before it begins to rebound. Although it would be a very harsh landing and you'd probably THINK you just bottomed out the forks. Rear shock might bottom out though, because it is under-sprung and under-damped, imo. The forks on the other hand, are slightly under-sprung, but mainly over-damped.

Yes, well said. Honda has history building many bikes that are undersprung and over damped to compensate. It's one reason I always ask people what their sag numbers are at the beginning of a conversation about improving the suspension. If you don't start there you have no idea where to go.

 

[hulkss]

.....however if you were to mildly jump an NC, I would almost bet it wouldn't use all of its 5ish inches of travel....

I don't know about jumping, I just ride on rough back roads. With my bike on the centers stand, I measure 5.5" of travel being used based on the witness lines on the fork tubes left by the fork dust seals. I have not noticed any bottoming and I would not want to have less travel. Cartridge emulators may help to smooth out small sharp bumps that require high frequency movement of the fork sliders.

 

[the Ferret]

As dduelin suggested, long travel has it’s own problems for curvy road street use. The movement of the the suspension throughout it’s travel range alters the whole geometry of the motorcycle: rake angles change, wheelbase changes, etc. It all goes back to what I said early about the suspension requirements and setup really depends on the condition and character of the roads you most often ride. Tight, short travel suspensions don’t work for where I usually ride, even though I’m on the “street”, but your situation may differ.

(Picture deleted)

Personally I dont see anything in that pic that would require 10" of suspension travel.

 

[670cc]

Personally I dont see anything in that pic that would require 10" of suspension travel.

Then I guess I was wrong and I should just be happy with the way the NC handles my roads.

 

[the Ferret]

Then I guess I was wrong and I should just be happy with the way the NC handles my roads.

Lol sorry, to me it just looked like any well sorted suspension should be able to handle that. No giant pot holes visible or raised edges, just an admittedly poorly patched road. I've certainly ridden on a lot worse.

If you have the legs for it, certainly having 10" of suspension travel can't hurt other than raising the center of gravity. I barely have the legs for 5" of travel.

 

[670cc]

Lol sorry, to me it just looked like any well sorted suspension should be able to handle that. No giant pot holes visible or raised edges, just an admittedly poorly patched road. I've certainly ridden on a lot worse.

It wasn’t my intent to document with photographs all the situations I have encountered locally, nor was intended to be a “my roads are worse than your roads” competition. I took a picture of one road and posted it. Photo deleted. Moving on.

 

[the Ferret]

I apologize. I deleted mine as well.