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OEM brake pads

I don’t mean to nitpick but just to possibly save someone some grief, I suggest that the reservoir cap at least be set in place, or a shop/paper towel be placed on top of the reservoir while pushing the pistons back in. If the pistons should move quickly, brake fluid can possibly squirt out of an open reservoir and onto painted or plastic surfaces, which as you pointed out, can cause damage.

No worries! I know not to compress them fast regardless of whether they would compress fast or not. I've always been taught to do everything slowly when it comes to forcing fluid through things like that, just didn't think to mention it. Either way, you are correct. I've had it squirt out while bleeding/flushing fluid too and leaving the cap off, but nothing significant.

I have another approach to the retaining pin. To clean it I brush it with a fine stainless steel brush that is about the size of a toothbrush. Both the Honda Common Service Manual and the model specific Service Manual recommends the pad retaining pin be installed dry and free of grease and that's what I do.

If one is not prepared to clean the pin all the time, with a few miles the grease on the pin collects road dust and grime which makes a paste that inhibits the free movement of the pads on the pin.

Valid point there too! Of course, upon removing the pin to change pads at about 9k miles on my 2013 and about 6-7k miles on my 2016, both pins were quite dirty and "catchy", probably having not been removed since the bikes were purchase new. So I couldn't imagine the grease collecting debris being that significant over the way mine were prior. Sanding and greasing in the first place may not even be necessary, just one of those things I feel like probably is an improvement, in theory at least.
 
Valid point, unless it's still got the oem brake fluid in it and has never had any added to it, which probably isn't all that uncommon LOL. In which case it needs to be changed anyways, which is also a fairly simple job, given you purchase a $10-15 bleeder kit with hose and catch cup from Advance Auto Parts.
Lots of good tips here, not dissimilar from the thread I linked. There was at least one recommendation that instead of bleeding brake fluid, use a turkey baster to remove fluid from reservoir and replace with clean oil. That is supposed to dilute any water.

This resonates with me because I have a 2018 hybrid car with a hydraulic engine clutch with a very short replacement period (none for brakes) which I have also blown past. On that car's forums, lots of owners are doing just that for the hydraulic fluid reservoir. They take it a bit further in that they replace it several times over weeks until clear. Virtually impossible to home pressure bleed it as it requires specialized tools and software. So I can do both jobs at the same time with this method.
 
I don’t mean to nitpick but just to possibly save someone some grief, I suggest that the reservoir cap at least be set in place, or a shop/paper towel be placed on top of the reservoir while pushing the pistons back in. If the pistons should move quickly, brake fluid can possibly squirt out of an open reservoir and onto painted or plastic surfaces, which as you pointed out, can cause damage.
So from info from thread I linked on post #3, if correct I learned that the reservoir has some sort of a bellows arrangement to allow for fluctuations in volume. So it might be OK to leave cap on as yes, I've never touched it before. And yes, I will be wrapping towels et cetera around the primary (after I clean the cap) should I access it. (Hate to say master/slave so I try to say primary and secondary).

Going to review shop manual now and attempt the ten minute fix. Just got some suitable grease for the pad backs.

Anyway, support in this community is way over and above! Thanks everyone!
 
Interestingly, the shop manual seems to think you can replace the pads without taking off the caliper. Crazy! Caliper came off easily, put it right back on again to get leverage on the pin head. My open ended 8mm wrench just torqued even more open slightly rounding the bolt head. Which came out easily enough with a vice grip (wincing slightly).

Don't get the pin design at all. What the heck does the o-ring do?

Anyway, question of why no indicator marks and why I couldn't tell pad from backplate solved. Down to a mere suggestion of pads on caliper side, and negative pads on the anvil side. Also explaining noise! Bad owner, bad owner.IMG_4149.jpeg
Surprised to see design. Single sided calipers (which I've seen on bicycles with their very thin disks) and no springs to hold pads apart. Magic! Basically never noticed before on vehicles, this is my first time messing with motorcycle or car brakes. I do know about the self adjustment part (like hydraulic lifters), but I suspect future designs will migrate to full retraction like my hybrid and bicycle.

Don't see any shims. On to cleaning the very dirty pistons (which appear to be stainless - good move), and installing. Doesn't appear OEM used grease on the back of their pads.
 
Got your money's worth out of those pads lol
Indeed. I'm quitting for tonight and will resume with better morning light and fewer mosquitos. I'm extremely reluctant to push the calipers back in without a full cleaning. There could be some pitting, which to my mind is sort of OK, better than raised spots against the seals. Using some 220 aluminum grit sandpaper until the mosquitos chased me away, it appears that the pitting may be dirt.

Is there some safe way without special tools to rotate the calipers (I assume that is a thing) so I have a direct view of the other side? I do have a mirror that fits under them, but that is awkward and I cannot apply the fingernail test for surface irregularities.
 
The pads are worn past where the wear indicators would show as the slot or groove in the friction pad but you can see 3 of the four indicators as the tiny black rectangles on the end edges of the friction pad material. The wear indicators are 1 mm high so you have less than 1 mm of pad material left according to the indicators. The brake pad on the right is worn to the metal so the indicator is gone as in non existent. I can see how they made some noise haha.

I wouldn't feel too bad about it. Most of us have pulled pads out to find the same or worse. I've replaced disks or drums on cars before because I waited too long to check the pads. One time on my 1988 Honda Accord whose pads did have a metal tab that was the wear indicator - it touched the disk and made a noise when the pad was worn down enough - I was strapped for cash so I took a drill and drilled out the rivet that secured the indicator and kept driving it without the indicator. At some point I traded the car in and some poor next owner went metal to metal with no warning. I still feel bad about that :rolleyes:
 
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At some point I traded the car in and some poor next owner went metal to metal with no warning. I still feel bad about that
I hit metal on a 2001 PT Cruiser at about 130K. Manual transmission downshifting and early slowing got them there. What a horrible noise. This is only the second time in 50 years of owning vehicles that I have had to deal with brakes. Except bicycles and I don't use brakes a lot on those either. Hybrids and slowing early fit me like a glove. But mostly when no one is behind me so no road rage. Riding a motorcycle even cautiously as I do, there are a lot of fast braking events. How long do pads last for everyone else on the NC? Still seems like 26K is too fast.
 
I agree, both NCs I took over 30,000 miles before disposal and they left me with original brakes front and rear. I use the brakes though and surely a more aggressive rider than you. I don't ride much in traffic though, mostly rural two lanes.
 
Well, darn. EBC FA140HH are the wrong pads - got at least two parts store to agree. They only tab I still have open says FA196HH. Input please?
 
I think we figured out in the EBC catalog for 2012-2013 the 140s are rear pads and 196s are front pads for non-ABS bikes.

ABS 2012-2013 bikes in the USA use 388s.
 
I hit metal on a 2001 PT Cruiser at about 130K. Manual transmission downshifting and early slowing got them there. What a horrible noise. This is only the second time in 50 years of owning vehicles that I have had to deal with brakes. Except bicycles and I don't use brakes a lot on those either. Hybrids and slowing early fit me like a glove. But mostly when no one is behind me so no road rage. Riding a motorcycle even cautiously as I do, there are a lot of fast braking events. How long do pads last for everyone else on the NC? Still seems like 26K is too fast.
Like I said, both front and rear pad sets on my NC are original at 51,000 miles. Slowing early and using engine braking as much as possible helps. I sort of play a game sometimes that values smooth riding over fast riding. Using the brakes results in the loss of “points”. But mainly I think that since I ride in low congestion rural areas, and almost never ride in city situations, is why my NC gets good pad life. There are either no stops, or the stops are predicted well in advance.

I think my Goldwing got to 60,000 miles on the original pads, but it probably saw a lot of open highway miles. Dodge minivan still has original pads at 126,000 miles.
 
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I think we figured out in the EBC catalog for 2012-2013 the 140s are rear pads and 196s are front pads for non-ABS bikes.

ABS 2012-2013 bikes in the USA use 388s.

I believe those are the correct numbers. I went through the same thing trying to find pads for my 2013. I believe the 196's are what I had to put on my 2016. Both DCT ABS bikes.

Also note, the EBC pads will be installed as they are, no shim or anything. I've never greased the back of pads, so that's a new one on me. And I would at least check the fluid level in the reservoir before compressing the pistons, they have a long way to go to accommodate fresh pads after taking those worn out suckers out! Dang! Lol. It's just 2 simple screws to remove the cap. I'd bet the fluid level is probably midways or below the middle and probably never has been changed or had any added to it, just a hunch though. Best to check it before regardless.
 
I think we figured out in the EBC catalog for 2012-2013 the 140s are rear pads and 196s are front pads for non-ABS bikes.

ABS 2012-2013 bikes in the USA use 388s.
Thanks! I'll hang on to the rears and check those out more thoroughly next week. Until the last few days, I tended to use rear brakes only for the last 50 feet before stopping.
 
Looks like a good amount of rear pad left, but more than half gone. At least I can see pads unlike the front! Fronts arriving tomorrow (Friday) but late evening no doubt. So Saturday morning I'll finish I hope as I have somewhere to go. Might feel too cold with a high in the mid 70s for the next week instead of close to 90 last two or three weeks.

Anyhoo, certainly more than 10 minutes including piston cleaning, but yes, easy.
 
I managed to get the pistons clean and shiny with sandpaper strips and a dental mirror. Next I got very lucky with piston retraction. I had a vague memory of picking up some free C-clamps at a rural garage sale 12 years ago (also scored a free hedge clipper that I'm still using). Rather small, but the largest one was a perfect fit! So no improvising or a trip to the store to get a tool. Ready to go when pads arrive.IMG_4151.jpeg
 
From the other thread, here is what I had read about grease:

As Lou said, get some grease for brakes which you can pickup at an auto parts store. Don't get the grease on the pad surface. Auto parts store will probably have it in a little packet which 1 packet will be plenty since you only need to put on a light coat on the pins and the points where the metal pad backing slides in the caliper.

Hard to imagine that the grease will last long. Dave said none on pin, clean and use dry. Still don't know what the pin O-ring is for but the shop manual says to lube it. Bolt threads were clean and dry on mounting bolts (Loctite on about 3 threads only) and on pin. Pin very dirty as if grease was used at the factory.
 
The pads came early today and I successfully installed them. It did not take me 10 minutes, probably close to 2 hours all in. First timer and a lot of stuff to figure out. For example, the shop manual helpfully says to "Make sure the retainer and pad spring are installed". No pictures. Yes, there is only one way to place it, but it took time to try every possible way and fiddle with the pin and pads to ensure I did it right. I had to use a screwdriver to load the pad spring to slide the pin in. Possibly could have done it with my arthritic thumbs, but the screwdriver seemed less likely to make everything go flying. I also first tried replacing pads with caliper mounted (per shop manual) but couldn't be sure pads were in the right place (probably the pin wouldn't go in if wrong though) and difficult to stop everything from falling out.

Next, I successfully (apparently) followed this advice I found online:
  • Make sure that your brake pads and rotor are perfectly clean. Any amount of dirt or grime could alter the bedding process.
  • Find a nice, empty stretch of road. You don’t want any other cars, and you don’t want any stop lights or stop signs.
  • We call this step the “warm up”. It’s just like exercise warm-ups for your brakes, with repetition and all. Accelerate to about 30 miles an hour, and then lightly brake your way back to 5 miles an hour. Do not reach a complete stop. Repeat this step about 5 to 10 times. Are you starting to see why you don’t want any traffic around?
  • This step will look a lot like the last, but this time, we are going to brake a little more aggressively. Accelerate to 40 miles an hour, and brake moderately down to 5 miles an hour. Again, avoid reaching a complete stop, and again, repeat this 5 or more times.
  • Now we are really going to see what these brakes can do. This time, Accelerate to 50, and brake aggressively back down to 5 miles an hour. Repeat this at least 5 times. It’s important that you do NOT allow your brakes to lock up, and do not reach a complete stop. (We will explain why later)
  • Now that we’ve completed our braking exercise, it’s time for a cool down. You can either ride your bike around and avoid braking, or park your bike at home. This is the end of your bedding exercise for the day.

I didn't pay enough attention (or any) to this last paragraph. I had a little bit of road left before hitting town limits and did one final aggressive brake - rep #6. Lever went soft so I stopped using the front brake and returned home. There were a few drops of hydraulic fluid leaking from the reservoir. Took the cap off and it was completely full. Removed 3 ml and reinstalled. Still a mushy lever that statically I could bottom and wouldn't pump hard. At low speeds - 25 mph, while mushy, lots of stopping power and control.

So what happened here guys? Easy to see that the many braking reps heated the fluid and it leaked a few drops of fluid. My best guess is that the rapid change in heat sucked air in through the brake pistons, and it now needs to be bled. Darn!
 
Forgive me if I missed it, but I never saw anywhere that the brake fluid was bled through the brake system to totally replace the old fluid with new, and ensuring that all air is expelled. It is a simple process. If it hadn’t been done throughout the life of the original pads, it certainly needs to be done now.

The previously mentioned sanding (220 grit) of the pistons part makes me queasy. I hope no damage was done.
 
Forgive me if I missed it, but I never saw anywhere that the brake fluid was bled through the brake system to totally replace the old fluid with new, and ensuring that all air is expelled. It is a simple process. If it hadn’t been done throughout the life of the original pads, it certainly needs to be done now.

The previously mentioned sanding (220 grit) of the pistons part makes me queasy. I hope no damage was done.
Me too. That is a pretty fine grit, so I doubt it. Not as fine as someone might use to polish, but pretty close and it looked and felt polished which is where I stopped despite still seeing lines on the piston that looked like dirt.

Not replacing the fluid (which looked new in the syringe I used to remove some) wasn't the cause here. Air entered (presumably) when the brakes got hot. The why is what needs an explanation. Piston damage is remotely possible I suppose, which would mean bleeding will fail.
 
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