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Vibration at 55 (or other high gear load) SOLVED!

Little Ed

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I apologize for recreating this topic which was closed by others who felt our vibration claims had no merit, no solution, or they just got tired of hearing about it.

I am now approaching 22,000 miles, and have lived (suffered) with the noted vibration at varying degrees for the two years I have owned my bike. I drive year round, every day to work, unless the temperature is below 9 degrees F. or there is a risk of snow/ice, or salt is sprayed onto the road. The vibration problem is now fixed, and the bike is working perfectly. I now plan to purchase my hard bags, which I have delayed the purchase of, due to the high probability I would eventually discard the bike. Ironically, over the near 22,000 miles I have ridden, my overall average MPG is 71MPG. (total miles divided by total gallons..accounting for gallons to the third digit). Regardless of the excellent mileage, the vibration under load conditions has always frustrated me.

For those who have been on this forum, you may recall 2 years ago, that I had addressed my concerns about my bike having an engine vibration whenever the engine was taxed, especially in the upper gears. The vibration was extremely pronounced when accelerating at the higher gears or when trying to maintain speed. This vibration existed since the day I purchased the bike. I could not recall these symptoms when driving the test bike which I drove the day prior to picking up my bike. Sadly, the test bike was out for the weekend, and I decided to take the bike I had returned to the dealer (160 miles away) to purchase. Over the initial 6 months of ownership the vibration problem gradually worsened, and then began to subside...NOT eliminated. I was almost at the point of trading, or upgrading..however, I did not see another bike that I wanted. During this period of worsening vibration and performance, I spent time scoping the spark signals, verifying the engine compression, valve clearances, etc. I never could find anything obvious except for the fact that the HV spark signal was weaker in one cylinder, indicating a spark or fuel combustion difference.

After seeing many articles and "You tube" videos of folks describing engine performance and vibration problems cause by imbalanced injectors I decided to build my own injector tester to compare my own.. a noble ambition, that I never had time to complete. In the interim, after several 800 mile trips, I realized why I needed hard bags but I would not invest in the upgrade until I resolved the vibration problem. Bottom Line, I ordered 2 new injectors hoping that the two I ordered would be "good" and work properly. That was a risk...after all, the ones on my bike were new, but obviously one was bad from 'day one".

Bottom line-- I completed the injector installation today and have driven my bike over 50 miles. Repeatedly driving over the same hills and varying higher gear load conditions(in 4th thru 6th) that I have driven over 1,000 times in the past two year. BOTTOM LINE----MY VIBRATION IS GONE!!!

I still plan to build the injector test jig, to test my injectors that I removed. With retirement on the near horizon, I should have the time..unless I am trekking.
 
What was the total cost of replacing both injectors? I ask because it might be worth doing unless it's prohibitively expensive.... of course, if it fixed that vibration, for someone who suffered with it, then it's priceless.
 
While I am fortunate to not have the issue that has bothered you (understandably), I appreciate you taking the time, having the patience and sharing the solution with everybody. thank you!!
 
Bottom line-- I completed the injector installation today and have driven my bike over 50 miles. Repeatedly driving over the same hills and varying higher gear load conditions(in 4th thru 6th) that I have driven over 1,000 times in the past two year. BOTTOM LINE----MY VIBRATION IS GONE!!!

I still plan to build the injector test jig, to test my injectors that I removed. With retirement on the near horizon, I should have the time..unless I am trekking.

I think I have the same issue ... your description of the symptoms is similar to what I'm experiencing. My thoughts have been to check the plugs, check valve clearance, and so on. But maybe I have a faulty injector - it would certainly explain the symptoms I'm experiencing.

Glad you got it sorted and thanks mucho for the follow-up post.
 
Wow. Thanks for following up with this. I too have been experiencing an increase in vibrations, but been writing it off a characteristic of the bike. I will definitely be looking into this more now.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
What was the total cost of replacing both injectors? I ask because it might be worth doing unless it's prohibitively expensive.... of course, if it fixed that vibration, for someone who suffered with it, then it's priceless.

Cost was approx. $150.00 for the injectors, seal rings and O-rings. I purchased from Procaliber (Washington or Oregon) I believe and no shipping due to the value.

2 ea Injectors- 16450-MFA-D02 @71.89 ea
2 ea Seal ring, injectors- 16472-MGS-D30 @ $1.62 ea
2 O-rings 91301-P7A-004 @ $1.81 ea ( I did not use these, the injectors had them already installed.

Looking at my Order , the web address seems to be https://procaliber.vnexttech.com
used them because of their price, which someone else had noted in the forum as being much cheaper than others

When you get ready to pull, be advised that the battery box removal was a pain. The service manual instructions fail to note the removal of a valve, prior to removing the battery box. If it doesn't get removed, you cant remove the battery box. I stripped out one of the two valve mounting screws (Phillips) which was way too tight!! Bottom line, the battery box is sandwiched (with grommets) to the steel mount, so I had to disassemble the grommets and pull the battery box and its' mount, out in two pieces. That allowed me to get the steel mount (with the valve) out so I could then properly remove the screw. Both Phillips screws were replaced with M5x12 Allen bolts, in the event I need to remove this again in the future.
 
I stripped out one of the two valve mounting screws (Phillips) which was way too tight!!

Bottom line, the battery box is sandwiched (with grommets) to the steel mount, so I had to disassemble the grommets and pull the battery box and its' mount, out in two pieces. That allowed me to get the steel mount (with the valve) out so I could then properly remove the screw.

Both Phillips screws were replaced with M5x12 Allen bolts, in the event I need to remove this again in the future.

Thanks for the follow up with Part #'s ... I found them at PartZilla for the same price (I order quite a bit from PZ for the ST1300).

It should be noted, for others who are lurking this thread, you should NOT use a Phillips head screwdriver when working on a Japanese vehicle, most especially a bike. If you're gonna wrench on your own, and want to remove \ replace JIS screws on your Japanese bike, you need to invest in JIS screwdrivers, such as are found here:
RRR Tool Solutions ... either the four or eight piece kit will get you there.

It's worth repeating (though I didn't explicitly state it yet):
A Phillips head screwdriver will strip out a JIS screw head almost every time:

jis-phil.jpg
 
Bottom Line, I ordered 2 new injectors hoping that the two I ordered would be "good" and work properly. That was a risk...after all, the ones on my bike were new, but obviously one was bad from 'day one".

I probably know the answer, but I have to ask: Did you do *any* injector troubleshooting, even if simple, such as listening with a stethoscope, removing and cleaning, or measuring output?

How did you test for the HV spark signal? Oscilloscope?

I still plan to build the injector test jig,

Are your referring to the build published by [clicky=>] Dean Segovis?
 
What was the total cost of replacing both injectors? I ask because it might be worth doing unless it's prohibitively expensive.... of course, if it fixed that vibration, for someone who suffered with it, then it's priceless.

great post, thanks for letting all member know of such solution

I'm wondering if the extended warranty will pay for this.


This is the internet...........just remember this issue once blamed on "out of round sprockets"........which appears to be a no go at this time. NC is still an odd fire engine.......and a twin. Then there is the issue the 750 got different balance shafts to change the "character of the engine".

Then there's issue that vibration issue has described and "felt" many different ways. Vibration is very subjective and the cause and effect can be extremely hard to link.

Why would injectors just be bad only at 55 MPH. ?????

As for warranty the dealer will not get approval based on an internet posting...........
 
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Why would injectors just be bad only at 55 MPH. ?????

As for warranty the dealer will not get approval based on an internet posting...........

Pardon me having a go. But going a steady speed requiring a certain lift/opening duration could bring to light a problem with one of the injectors versus the other in that area of operation. During acceleration you'd also be in that area but acceleration kinda blurs the feel you have on the bike with all other things happening in the bike.

It could be one not opening the same as the other or having a little more resistance.

I don't know about the warrenty but if there is a clear difference when testing them they may agree. If you don't try you get nothing.
 
Why would injectors just be bad only at 55 MPH. ?????

We'd have to read the whole article, not just the Title:

that I had addressed my concerns about my bike having an engine vibration whenever the engine was taxed, especially in the upper gears. The vibration was extremely pronounced when accelerating at the higher gears or when trying to maintain speed.

I experience this. And no, it's not some "inherent twin vibration". This is under load, mostly in the upper gears.
The way that I would describe it in car terms, "it's like a V8 running on 5-6 cylinders". I certainly can't state it's as if the NC is running on one cylinder, but it sure feels like it sometimes.

I've been riding bikes ... motocross, enduros, street, 2-stroke, 4 stroke, one\two\four cylinders, in-line and V4's, for 40+ years. And I've been wrenching on cars of all configurations ... what I'm experiencing is not "normal", even for a 670cc 270 degree crankshaft-throw parallel twin Honda NC :D
 
I probably know the answer, but I have to ask: Did you do *any* injector troubleshooting, even if simple, such as listening with a stethoscope, removing and cleaning, or measuring output?

How did you test for the HV spark signal? Oscilloscope?



Are your referring to the build published by [clicky=>] Dean Segovis?

I did not do any prior injector testing primarily due to the difficulty in accessing them. I was led to believe that they (among other things) may at fault based on the fact that it worsened and then got better over many months. Clearly my issue was not related to my driving habits, neither did temp nor humidity, nor fuel have any bearing. After reading numerous articles on the HV spark signature, I decide to test the spark. It was obvious that one of my cylinders had a lower HV spark signal. I even purchased a second PICO HV probe so that I could view both simultaneously using my dual trace storage scope. When I swapped the probes, the same weak signature phenomena remained at the same cylinder. Again, this signal does not reveal a bad injector, only that there is a difference in the spark signal. Apparently the HV spark signal changes with the fuel richness, compression, etc. A bad injector can contribute to the fuel component... i.e squirting vs spraying, or possibly the qty of fuel delivered, etc.

I do not recall exactly which test model I was going to go with, but there were a few that appeared to be better thought out. My plans were to build one of the variations of testers that was compatible with the injector type that we have in the bike. (I do not recall whether we have the Hi or Low impedance type) and the type signal which is needed to drive it. I did not plan to use a conventional relay as some examples used. I have pulse width signal generators and merely planned to interface a home built driver circuit, which I could adjust frequency and pulse width to establish and monitor the fuel flow into graduated cylinders...just like the examples in the various You tube demos. I still would have purchased the new injectors prior to starting the testing. In fact a couple months ago I purchased on E-Bay, a motorcycle fuel rail with 4 injectors that I was going to start my prototype design. It was perfect because it would have allowed me to test up to 4 injectors....my 2 in the bike and 2 new ones that I would eventually purchase.

Bottom line, given the minimal and limited troubleshooting I did, I could simply say "I guessed correctly and replaced what was bad".......my 2 year old problem is now GONE!!! I just came back from another 40 mile drive and can not believe it is fixed. Having ridden with this problem nearly every day of the year, for over two years, I can confidently say "my problem is fixed". What fixed my bike may or may not, apply for other folks.
 
Why would injectors just be bad only at 55 MPH. ?????

...........

If you read my initial note thoroughly, it clearly states "higher gears", under load. In fact, I should have specified in rpm range instead (say 2800 to 3200 RPM. Specifically, when in 6th gear and in the range of 51 to to 58 MPH the problem is more prevalent. For my bike, I had the same symptoms even in 5th gear at that RPM range except given the gearing advantage to the engine, the problem was not as pronounced. The same could be said for 4th gear as well, albeit much more subtle. If you don't have the problem with your bike, I suspect you have no idea what I am explaining. For those that do have the same, or nearly the same problem.... they probably know exactly what I am describing.
 
I did not do any prior injector testing primarily due to the difficulty in accessing them.
[...]

Bottom line, given the minimal and limited troubleshooting I did, I could simply say "I guessed correctly and replaced what was bad".......my 2 year old problem is now GONE!!! I just came back from another 40 mile drive and can not believe it is fixed. Having ridden with this problem nearly every day of the year, for over two years, I can confidently say "my problem is fixed". What fixed my bike may or may not, apply for other folks.

Thanks for detailed follow-up, Ed !
 
I'm happy you found the cure for your bike! I hope I never have this problem, but we now have a fix to refer to.
 
Thanks for the follow up with Part #'s ... I found them at PartZilla for the same price (I order quite a bit from PZ for the ST1300).

It should be noted, for others who are lurking this thread, you should NOT use a Phillips head screwdriver when working on a Japanese vehicle, most especially a bike. If you're gonna wrench on your own, and want to remove \ replace JIS screws on your Japanese bike, you need to invest in JIS screwdrivers, such as are found here:
RRR Tool Solutions ... either the four or eight piece kit will get you there.

It's worth repeating (though I didn't explicitly state it yet):
A Phillips head screwdriver will strip out a JIS screw head almost every time:

View attachment 20068

So, if anyone is interested in ordering the JIS screwdrivers, or any other tools at the RRR Tools Solutions website, I have a "coupon code" that will get you 20% off a tool order of $45 or more. Just send me a PM and I'll give ya the code. The 20% off sale ends Sunday.

I am not affiliated with RRR Tools and am not getting any sort of kickback ... I myself have the 8 piece JIS screwdriver set (ordered through RRR the last time they had the sale). Gordon (at RRR) posted another 20% off sale on the ST Owners website, so I thought I'd share here.
These are very high quality Vessel tools (the screwdrivers, anyway) from Japan.
 
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