Loctite and Torque Values

[potter0o]

Some of the Honda fasteners come with thread locking compound painted on to them. My understanding is this is mostly why some of the fasteners are intended for single use. Obviously there will be some stretch to the fasteners as they are torqued as well but I was curious as to what the thoughts of others were with Loctite affecting torque values.

My general understanding is that unless otherwise specified all torque values in the manual are dry values. My belief is that Loctite at a minimum will provide some lubrication properties. I have read a range of ideas ranging from: "I torque it to what the manual says even with Loctite" to " reduce the torque values by 25% to factoring the lubrication created by Loctite"

I'm curious as to what opinion/experience of others is on this topic... I could of course have too much time on my hands

 

[DirtFlier]

The bolts that I always use a torque wrench to tighten are the axle nuts, fork pinch bolts, and caliper mounting bolts. The caliper bolts have thread lock from the factory but I've never reapplied any and have never had any trouble. I just use the stated torque in the S/M.

 

[DCTFAN]

The bolts that I always use a torque wrench to tighten are the axle nuts, fork pinch bolts, and caliper mounting bolts. The caliper bolts have thread lock from the factory but I've never reapplied any and have never had any trouble. I just use the stated torque in the S/M.

Interestingly, out of the three bolts, it is the caliper bolts that the service manual recommends that you replace.
It is good that you don't have problems not following recommendations in the manual, but it is so easy to apply a bit of LT, why not?

 

[Deleted member 1183]

I have no doubt that if lower torque values were required when using loctite with a bolt on the manufacturers instruction, then they would say so.

As far as I am concerned I have been reusing single use bolts also for years with no ill affects. None have ever backed out. They mostly are used on brake calipers.

 

[670cc]

Liquid thread locker may affect the torque value more than dry or no thread locker. It’s possible that no thread locker as well as a Honda ALOC dry thread locker bolt may be closer to achieving the specified bolt stretch at a given torque than a bolt with freshly applied liquid thread locker, because the liquid may reduce friction while the bolt is being tightened. (I didn’t word that well but I hope it’s clear enough).

Short answer: I don’t know.

 

[HarveyM]

From the service manual I have Honda specifies which bolts a 'locking agent' should be applied and their torque values are higher than Honda specs as 'common values' for dry bolts.

 

[dduelin]

I reuse ALOC single-use bolts in my Honda motorcycles 3 or 4 times before replacing them. I do use medium LocTite (blue) on caliper and brake disk bolts and the recommended torque values. When I have the fasteners out I use a tap to chase (clean) the bolt holes of gummy LocTite residue.

 

[potter0o]

I called customer service for Loctite and they were vague. Liability issues from the past apparently. The suggestion was to look up wet torque values and use those. I think that one of the suggested sources may have been Pocket Ref by Thomas J. Glover. I got this at the library today after an inter library transfer. Lots of information on a variety of topics in such a small book.

 

[MZ5]

If Honda supplies a fastener with anything pre-applied, install it using the torque value listed in the owner's or service manual. If it's a bolt that comes without that 'stuff' from Honda, and you put something of your own onto the threads, it will alter the thread friction and thus _should_ require an adjustment of the torque applied in order to achieve the same (target) clamping force. Here's a nice presentation from Loctite themselves on the topic of fasteners:
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That pdf basically says to not adjust applied torque, but it also says that threadlockers change clamping force. So, do whatever you want, apparently. (-:

 

[potter0o]

I read the same article and came to the same point. I was really trying to get a rule of thumb to reuse fasteners that had pre-installed thread locker from Honda. The idea being how would a liquid thread locker modify the stated torque that was based on a dry locker.

I also spoke with an old timer at a local shop for variety. What he does is apply anti seize to things as he is most concerned about corrosion whether that is from moisture or a galvanic reaction.

I have come to the point that this is like an oil conversation. The ideal thing to do is replace the fastener as the manual specifies. Outside of following the manual there is a range of opinions which people have been doing successfully for years so you get to "pick" what you think is best as it is your but on the line

 

[anglachel]

I read the same article and came to the same point. I was really trying to get a rule of thumb to reuse fasteners that had pre-installed thread locker from Honda. The idea being how would a liquid thread locker modify the stated torque that was based on a dry locker.

I also spoke with an old timer at a local shop for variety. What he does is apply anti seize to things as he is most concerned about corrosion whether that is from moisture or a galvanic reaction.

I have come to the point that this is like an oil conversation. The ideal thing to do is replace the fastener as the manual specifies. Outside of following the manual there is a range of opinions which people have been doing successfully for years so you get to "pick" what you think is best as it is your but on the line

One of those things where simply asking the question means you are probably doing it well enough to have no noticeable effect any which way. (like the oil commentaries, asking the question means you are changing your oil, means you are probably doing well enough.)

 

[Jim Mc]

The rule of thumb given to me by a couple of automotive engineers who worked for GM was to reduce the spec torque by 10% if using anythin like Loctite.