Bit of fun: Honda NC700X DCT smokes a Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom... or does it?

[GoRovers]

In this 22-second video you'll see a 2016 Honda NC700X DCT (dual clutch transmission) smoke a 2007 Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom (manual transmission)... or will you?

Spoiler: At first the NC's DCT shifts flawlessly, while the V-Strom human shifter struggles! But, ultimately, 670cc torque is no match for 996cc, and the V-Strom pulls away.

Note 1: NC DCT was in "S3" mode for higher-rev shifting, and throttle was wide open from green light. Note 2: No speed limit laws were broken.

[video=youtube_share;3Rns7F_bl4Y]https://youtu.be/3Rns7F_bl4Y[/video]

 

[Heavy-H]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.......
I've owned both.... A DL1000 or a DL650 will humiliate our beloved NC...... No hate here...... Just sayen...

 

[dduelin]

Just a point of reference, when the throttle is held wide open the DCT shifts at the same just-short-of-rev limiter rpm in gears 2 through 6 no matter if D or any S mode is selected.

 

[GoRovers]

Just a point of reference, when the throttle is held wide open the DCT shifts at the same just-short-of-rev limiter rpm in gears 2 through 6 no matter if D or any S mode is selected.

Hi DDuelin. I enjoy reading your posts, and I understand you ride mainly in "D" mode. I ride mainly in "S3." Back in 2016 you wrote. "...if you are riding aggressively in S the computer will hold gears longer..." While I don't want to resurrect the almost-banned topic of DCT learning, I am curious: what's the source of your WOT-same-shift-points statement?

The point, of course, of my original post was merely for a laugh.

 

[dduelin]

Hi DDuelin. I enjoy reading your posts, and I understand you ride mainly in "D" mode. I ride mainly in "S3." Back in 2016 you wrote. "...if you are riding aggressively in S the computer will hold gears longer..." While I don't want to resurrect the almost-banned topic of DCT learning, I am curious: what's the source of your WOT-same-shift-points statement?

My point of reference is 25,715 miles on the odometer.

Let me clarify how our transmissions work......if you in S3 and I in D whack open the throttle from a standing start the transmission holds each gear on both bikes from 2nd right up to red line. D on my 2015 will make the 1st to 2nd shift a few hundred rpm less than S but all others 2 to 6 are just short of rev limiter. My guess is the PCM is programmed to give everything if the throttle position is wide open and held wide open after the 1-2 shift. Try it in D and S3 on your bike and see what happens.

The quote you used is accurate then and accurate now. In S3 it will hold gears longer (upshift at higher rom) than D will unless under WOT (see above). Under less than WOT the S upshift and downshift points are higher in the rev range and when riding aggressively the transmission will hold onto a gear longer under a steady throttle setting before upshifting or downshifting.

During a ride I will often use all the modes and override with shift paddles when needed though of late I use D mode the most and override as I see fit. Learning to ride the transmission has evolved from when I demoed my bike with 1.2 miles on the odometer. If you dig around you'll find posts where I rode mostly in S and was trying to time throttle blips to rev match downshifts like a manual. That was back when I had a few thousand miles on it.

 

[Red Rider]

To me, this is what makes the DCT so interesting and cool to ride. The technology is incredible and even though the automatic transmission “will do it all for you” (if and when you want it to), the complete versatility of all the modes requires some thought and strategy to ride the bike to its full potential. I can make this bike do everything I would have been able to do with a manual transmission - and then some. And when it’s time to just cruise along and enjoy the ride experience without the hassle of “clutching and clicking”, it just can’t be beat. After over fifty years on two wheels, change is what keeps the juices flowing.

 

[jayceegee]

well folks, I wouldn't believe everything you see or hear. I had a DL1000 before and it would stomp all over the NC700x. I now have the NC700x which really like and prefer so I do have a bit of a reference mark. Next video up will be the NC700 blowing away a Suzuki Hayabusa.

 

[Michael Moore]

The DCT launches very well from a stop. It would be interesting to see how one would work in ET bracket racing where consistency is very important.

 

[670cc]

To me, this is what makes the DCT so interesting and cool to ride. The technology is incredible and even though the automatic transmission “will do it all for you” (if and when you want it to), the complete versatility of all the modes requires some thought and strategy to ride the bike to its full potential. I can make this bike do everything I would have been able to do with a manual transmission - and then some. And when it’s time to just cruise along and enjoy the ride experience without the hassle of “clutching and clicking”, it just can’t be beat. After over fifty years on two wheels, change is what keeps the juices flowing.

Yes, the DCT technology is amazing. With the DCT, is there a way to take your hand off the throttle to adjust clothing or scratch your nose while cruising and not have the bike slow down under engine braking? When test riding them, I didn’t think it would go to neutral unless stopped, and of course, there’s no control over the clutch.

 

[dduelin]

With the DCT, is there a way to take your hand off the throttle to adjust clothing or scratch your nose while cruising and not have the bike slow down under engine braking? When test riding them, I didn’t think it would go to neutral unless stopped, and there’s no control over the clutch.

Like a manual, if you roll off the throttle with DCT to scratch your nose the bike will slow down under engine braking. The answer to this dilemma is to use your left hand to scratch your nose and adjust clothing. In addition I have a Go Cruise on the right grip all the time and it's a one-finger effort to set it thus holding the throttle open for as long as necessary.

 

[Olythom]

The only way that I have come up with for scratching an itch (or adjusting gloves or ???) is to engage my throttle lock. Otherwise Skookum tends to slow down pretty quickly.
>Thom

 

[DCTFAN]

When you listen to the sound track, the NC700X rider did not even have WOT.The Vee rider doesn't know how to shift; that's all the video showed.

 

[670cc]

Yep, forgot about that. I don’t have/use a throttle lock, but that would be the solution.

 

[DCTFAN]

Just a point of reference, when the throttle is held wide open the DCT shifts at the same just-short-of-rev limiter rpm in gears 2 through 6 no matter if D or any S mode is selected.

I don't think this is how the shift points are programmed, but
unless you are well aware of engine rpm, wheel speed and throttle angle while riding,
shift points could feel the same.

 

[DCTFAN]

Yes, the DCT technology is amazing. With the DCT, is there a way to take your hand off the throttle to adjust clothing or scratch your nose while cruising and not have the bike slow down under engine braking? When test riding them, I didn’t think it would go to neutral unless stopped, and of course, there’s no control over the clutch.

I've used the kill switch on downhills for short duration to let the bike coast.
Switch back on to resume riding at whatever gear DCT chose to be in.

 

[dduelin]

I don't think this is how the shift points are programmed, but
unless you are well aware of engine rpm, wheel speed and throttle angle while riding,
shift points could feel the same.

Based on personal observations these are exactly how the D and S shift points work on my bike. I don't have to think about it, I went out one day to see for myself. It's really simple. Launch in D, hold the throttle wide open until it shifts into 6th, and watch the tach for when it shifts each time. Stop, place in S and repeat.

 

[DCTFAN]

DCT Shift map

If you look at Fig.24 the
shift point differences for each mode is shown:
Note the line plots are different for each mode regardless of throttle opening angle.
Subtle differences but not the same.

 

[dduelin]

If you look at Fig.24 the
shift point differences for each mode is shown:
Note the line plots are different for each mode regardless of throttle opening angle.
Subtle differences but not the same.

Thats for the AT with ride by wire and functions the NC doesn't have. The second generation DCT in the NC doesn't have the same programming as the 3rd in the AT.

Why don't you see if your CTX acts like an NC does?

 

[DCTFAN]

Thats for the AT with ride by wire and functions the NC doesn't have. The second generation DCT in the NC doesn't have the same programming as the 3rd in the AT.

Why don't you see if your CTX acts like an NC does?

You're right they are not the same.
My reasoning is that the underlying principle of programming different shift points for each mode is the same.
Also, if anyone bothers to study the graphs, we can see that the differences in shift points become minuscule,
as the throttle angle increases.
So, I will agree that the shift points @WOT are ALMOST the same, but not exactly the SAME

PS. When I used to have both the CTX700 and the NC, there were no noticeable differences in acceleration.

 

[Red Rider]

Yes, the DCT technology is amazing. With the DCT, is there a way to take your hand off the throttle to adjust clothing or scratch your nose while cruising and not have the bike slow down under engine braking? When test riding them, I didn’t think it would go to neutral unless stopped, and of course, there’s no control over the clutch.

Taking the hand off the throttle will slow the bike down on either manual shift or DCT but what I CAN do on the DCT is take my hand off the throttle, adjust clothing, scratch my nose - with the throttle hand - all the while gliding to a stop at the light or stop sign - continue to steer with my left hand without clutching, plant my left foot down as I brake with the right, and be in the right gear and ready to go when my throttle hand leisurely finishes scratching my nuts.