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Bad DCT clutch?

katyeight

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NC700XD, 18,000 miles, new battery, 10W40 mineral oil - starting this spring, DCT would not go into neutral on startups immediately after long rides. Rocking didn't help, only cooling down helped. Also, if, after not going into neutral on startup, I held in the brake and started in 2nd gear and rode for a minute or 2 at about 30 mph, it would start in neutral (likely from air cooling the engine). Now this weekend, after riding for awhile, coming to a stop the DCT would slip out of gear and the gear indicator box with a dash would flash. Also, 1st gear would slip just prior to the flashing dash. 5th gear slipped also during my long ride.

Thoughts? Bad clutch(s), running too hot? Help!
 
Would you say it's the odd gears that are misbehaving, but the even gears are OK?
 
Two nit-picking points- You should going into neutral before shutting down the engine (according to the owner's manual) and Honda specs JASO MA oil (which is for wet clutches), so if you're using 'regular' 10w40 I would try the Honda spec'ed stuff.
 
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If I'm not mistaken the DCT monitors oil pressure and oil temperature. Low oil level could trigger both diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) preventing normal transmission operation but the dash should show a flashing code like LP or something. Sorry, I'm at work and far from the owners manual.

The second thing mentioned baffles me. The DCT should never be able to shift to 2nd without starting in first. It should never be able to start in 2nd gear. Please elaborate on this.
 
After trying to start, I get 7 short flashed and 4 long ones, which if I'm reading this right is an EOP voltage DTC. Has anybody had EOP issues on their DCT?
 
Not trying to be rude but why would you put oil that is not called for in your DCT ? If you honestly didn't know you're forgiven but even then you should always do your research

I think correct oil is needed to make these gears work correctly
 
Not trying to be rude but why would you put oil that is not called for in your DCT ? If you honestly didn't know you're forgiven but even then you should always do your research

I think correct oil is needed to make these gears work correctly

I looked through the thread, but so far I don't see a basis for this assumption that the incorrect oil type was used. The OP stated that 10W-40 mineral oil was used. Other details about the oil type were not disclosed, but 10W-40 mineral oil can be totally acceptable if it meets the API and JASO ratings specified by Honda. SAE 10W-40 falls within the specified viscosity range listed in the Honda service manual.

As a side note, although my NC700Xs are not DCT, I do use 10W-40 mineral oil and it meets Honda NC700X service manual specs.
 
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What is the oil level and are you confident that you can check the oil level? These are dumb questions on my part but I'm not looking at the bike with my own eyes and taking nothing for granted.

Do you have access to a Honda service manual to accurately decode the DTC blink sequence? EOP trouble codes are of course related to engine oil level and oil pressure. It could be low oil level, a faulty oil pump, a bad OP sensor or just a loose or wonky electrical connection to the OP sensor. I'm not sure but I think low oil pressure should have triggered the dash light for oil pressure and possibly the check engine light while the bike was riding along. If oil level is good and those lights did not come on when riding I would begin to think circuits to/from or the sensor(s) are where to start and the DTC code indictates what components to check out.
 
Has anybody had EOP issues on their DCT?

From the forums serous DCT problems are rare (I.E. one offs). 'Commonly reported' are weak battery issues, getting stuck in gear pre-starting, or not shifting from neutral into first due to high engine rpm.

In your case (depending on your comfort level) cleaning/dialectric grease the electrical connectors would be the first step. Then there's a DCT clutch initialize protocol- I doubt it would help in this case, but it's easy to do and you never know. (after that I'd give up & take it to the dealer)
 
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Thanks for the responses. Oil is JASO MA and oil level is fine. I will be checking the clutch EOP connections tonight.
 
Thanks for the responses. Oil is JASO MA and oil level is fine. I will be checking the clutch EOP connections tonight.
That would be good, as DDuelin and 670cc posted.
It seems your odd gears are having issues.
I've had my odd gear OP sensor disabled by a low side which prevented the bike to shift into first gear.
Rather, it went straight into 2nd gear but enabled me to ride in 2nd gear only. It would not shift up into 3rd (odd gear).
My guess is that your odd gear OP sensor is not working properly. Just swap it out with one of the other two and draw your conclusions.
All three OP sensors are exactly the same.
.
 
As I found out the hard way, mineral oil does not mix with regular oil. Did you flush the engine before changing to mineral oil? What color is your oil now, and is it milky?
 
As I found out the hard way, mineral oil does not mix with regular oil. Did you flush the engine before changing to mineral oil? What color is your oil now, and is it milky?

I believe in this case mineral oil is synonymous with "regular" oil.

From wikipedia:
"Lubricant base stocks are categorized into five groups by the API. Group I base stocks are composed of fractionally distilledpetroleum which is further refined with solvent extraction processes to improve certain properties such as oxidation resistance and to remove wax. Group II base stocks are composed of fractionally distilledpetroleum that has been hydrocracked to further refine and purify it. Group III base stocks have similar characteristics to Group II base stocks, except that Group III base stocks have higher viscosity indexes. Group III base stocks are produced by further hydrocracking of either Group II base stocks or hydroisomerized slack wax (a Group I and II dewaxing process by-product). Group IV base stock are polyalphaolefins (PAOs). Group V is a catch-all group for any base stock not described by Groups I to IV. Examples of group V base stocks include polyolesters (POE), polyalkylene glycols (PAG), and perfluoropolyalkylethers(PFPAEs). Groups I and II are commonly referred to as mineral oils, group III is typically referred to as synthetic (except in Germany and Japan, where they must not be called synthetic) and group IV is a synthetic oil. Group V base oils are so diverse that there is no catch-all description."
 
Engine oil is engine oil. It mixes readily with other engine oils and there is no need to remove or flush out old oil before adding new oil.

Of course this allows that the engine oils chosen are acceptable viscosities and formulated with additive packages compatible with your engine and transmission.

It's all on the bottle in plain language.
 
Milky oil or "milkshake" oil is most often associated with water or antifreeze contamination.
Do not think the OP has this issue as per post #12.

Typical

oil_dipstick_coolant_contamination.jpg
 
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DCTFAN nailed it! I checked my EOP sensors last night and the EOP for clutch 1 (1-3-5) has a cracked connector on the sensor and the connection was loose. The crack likely happened 2 years ago when my son gently laid the bike on its right side. I left the bike idling for 20 minutes last night - no issues with shifting or slipping. I rode this AM in 87 degree weather for 20 minutes and no slipping or issues with finding neutral. I'll be replacing the sensor nonetheless and will hope my problems have all been solved.

Lessons learned here (which I should have know having worked a lot on cars, old and new) are 1) it's a Honda so it is likely not a component failure (like oil pump, clutch, etc.) and 2) if nobody on great forums like this one have had the same problem, check wiring and sensors first.

Thanks for all the responses!
 
DCTFAN nailed it! I checked my EOP sensors last night and the EOP for clutch 1 (1-3-5) has a cracked connector on the sensor and the connection was loose. The crack likely happened 2 years ago when my son gently laid the bike on its right side. I left the bike idling for 20 minutes last night - no issues with shifting or slipping. I rode this AM in 87 degree weather for 20 minutes and no slipping or issues with finding neutral. I'll be replacing the sensor nonetheless and will hope my problems have all been solved.

Lessons learned here (which I should have know having worked a lot on cars, old and new) are 1) it's a Honda so it is likely not a component failure (like oil pump, clutch, etc.) and 2) if nobody on great forums like this one have had the same problem, check wiring and sensors first.

Thanks for all the responses!

this is very valuable to know... great information... can you or someone tell me where are those sensors located? would be good to know.
 
this is very valuable to know... great information... can you or someone tell me where are those sensors located? would be good to know.

There are 3 DCT oil-related sensors located under the plastic cover just to the right of the oil dip stick. 2 sensor are for engine oil pressure (EOP), one for each clutch. The other sensor is for engine oil temperature (EOT). Note these sensors are specific to the DCT system and are not the main EOP and EOT sensors.
 
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