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The red dot on the tire.

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The Shinko label on the tire I just installed says to locate the tire's red dot at the valve on the wheel, since it's the heaviest part of the wheel. Right?

Wrong.

I just mounted 4 motorcycle tires in the last two days. Of the 4 wheels, only one had it's heaviest spot at the tire valve. It was an NC700X rear wheel. However, another NC700X wheel (front) that I mounted a tire on had it's heavy spot almost 90 degrees from the valve. See photo.

I have noted more often than not, that factory and dealer mounted and balanced wheels will have balance weights concentrated in the valve area, which means either the tire itself was severely imbalanced, or the light part of the tire was routinely placed at the valve, but the valve is not actually the heaviest part of the wheel.

Bottom line is, you need to check your wheel balance before mounting the tire, then place the tire dot accordingly. If you go on the assumption that the valve is the heavy spot, you will probably be wrong more often than right, and you would be just as well to forget the dot and throw the tire on in any random place.

A good practice would be to check the balance of your bare wheels and permanently mark the heavy spot on the wheel.

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I also make it my hobby to double check any information,
such as manufacturer provided specs.
This is a nugget of gold in terms of motorcycling.

I have a lot to learn.
 
Put RideOn in the tires, then just drive on without all that work! An as the tire wears off rubber, the tire still remains balanced. Water seeks its own level...............
 
Put RideOn in the tires, then just drive on without all that work! An as the tire wears off rubber, the tire still remains balanced. Water seeks its own level...............

Perhaps, but this is more a thread about balancing using weights, just like what the factory does. Even if you did want to use Ride-On as a balancing aid, there is no reason you would not want to start with a tire/wheel assembly balanced as closely as possible. So the advice I've given still applies.

I just wiped up Ride-On out of three tires using up a half a roll of paper towels. I'm not really a fan of that stuff and I don't think it's worth the $240 a gallon they charge for it. I use it only as a backup plan for tires that have had puncture repairs, and even then I'm annoyed that with the prescribed amount, it only protects the center 2 inches of tread area (see photo).

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I see the benefit of both idea mentioned here. I use the ride on solely for balancing my tires (no external weights) but the finding the heavy spot on your wheel and the heavy spot on your tire and setting those across from each other is worth the small amount of work it takes. P.S. There are cheaper alternatives to the run flat that do the same thing
 
Here are two more examples of dealer installed and balanced tires - GL1800 in this case. Our Honda Reflex OEM front tire also had a weight next to the valve, but I did not snap a photo of it. My 1997 ST1100 wheels always came back from the tire installer with weight near the valve.

If the valve area on the wheel is already the heaviest spot, why do we need more weight there and not somewhere else? Or is it that the tire itself is so badly unbalanced that the valve is not enough weight to offset it? Checking the wheel balance first is the only way to know.

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Looking around your findings seem to correct, this is supposed to be a quote from Metzler's install instructions.

WHEEL BALANCING

Always balance each tire and wheel assembly upon installation. Unbalanced tire/wheel assemblies can vibrate at various speeds, resulting in accelerated tire wear. Metzeler Street / dual purpose tires should be installed with the sidewall red dot(s) at the air valve if present. However these red dot(s) are designed to be used as a reference in balancing and we suggest balancing the tire and wheel as an assembly and to use the least amount of weight possible. This means that moving the reds dots 45 or even 90 degrees from the valve stem to help the assembly use less weight is possible and best.

Metzeler does not recommend the use of liquid balancer, liquid balance/sealers, or any other balance materials. Metzeler will not extend any warranty consideration for tires which have been injected with any type of liquid balancer, liquid balance/sealers, or any other balance materials. Tire and wheel assemblies should be balanced on a computer or static balance stand. Please check with your dealer/wheel manufacturer for the correct wheel weights for each application.
 
Dunlop includes a similar warranty exclusion for using anything other than air in a tire. I'd guess most of the brands probably have a similar exclusion.

Warranty Info | Dunlop Motorcycle

"WHAT IS NOT COVERED

Tires injected with dry/liquid balancers or sealants, or in which anything other than air has been used as the supporting medium."
 
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I think we may be over think this. Just mount the tire up and don't worry so much about the wheel/rim relationship. Once the assembly is balance with wheel weights it's a balance assembly. If by chance you end up needing an ecessive amount of weight, spin the tire 180 and rebalance.
 
I think we may be over think this. Just mount the tire up and don't worry so much about the wheel/rim relationship. Once the assembly is balance with wheel weights it's a balance assembly. If by chance you end up needing an ecessive amount of weight, spin the tire 180 and rebalance.

Once both beads are inside the rim, I find most tires impossible to "spin" 180 due to friction. I think what you're suggesting is that if I don't like the number of weights needed, I break both beads, put the wheel back on the changer, unmount one bead, spin the tire, remount the bead, reseat the beads, then repeat the balance process all over again with the same random chance of success? To each his/her own, but I'd rather just check the bare wheel balance first, know where to put the tire, and do it all right just once.
 
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guys, guys, don't fight! just buy a 55-gallon drum of RIDE-ON and fill the tires to the brim!
 
guys, guys, don't fight! just buy a 55-gallon drum of RIDE-ON and fill the tires to the brim!

Yes, I thought about that. But I hope they give a quantity discount at Ride-On. In 8 ounce bottles, Ride-On for motorcycles sells for about $1.87 per ounce. At that rate, a 55 gallon drum of Ride-On would cost over $13,000! That just illustrates how overpriced that stuff is.
 
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It's just such a rare thing the the weight needed will result in having to spin the tire 180. Maybe one in 50 tires I've mounted result in having to move the tire. I used a tire machine that holds the rim so moving the tire 180 is not a issue.
 
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Balance beads and balance liquids are one of the most controversial topics right next to high flow air filters.

Bottom line there are NO tire or vehicle manufactures that use the products and none recommended there use. Most have some sort of warnings against using them for balance or sealing.

Motorcycle Consumer News did a rode test on balance beads a number of years back concluding they did not work to balance the motorcycle tires.

It is surprising no one else has conducted an engineering study or double blind road test to see if a rider could reliably pick out conventional balance from unbalanced from liquid or bead balanced.

If you google the topic there are 1000's of hits with 10's of thousands posts on dozens of forums for or against the products.

A number of years ago I had access to high end automotive tire spin balancer. The balancer could balance the automotive tire and wheel assembly with repeatability to a few grams. This topic came at lunch........so we purchased beads, soft pellets and liquids. Then tried to balance the tires or check the balance on the spin balancer. At no time did any of the multitude of tires ever show balanced with the added beads or liquids. ( yes i am aware there is whole argument or theory the tire must be suspended on the vehicle) . The lunch crew then switched to an on car balancer, again an epic fail.

We did have fun with this project.......tried 1/8" and 1/4" ball bearings ( they were noise at low speed) then one brain trust said we need more weight/mass. Golf balls !!! That was funny.

Maybe this should be a job for myth busters. ( there is a new show) White Rabbit project

Again one of those topics ..........that never ends. Carry on :rolleyes:
 
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yeah, i don't use QuadBoss to balance (and they are one of the companies who don't make any big claims about this BTW). I use it because it works well to seal common punctures. I have spoke weights on my WR and had my NC balanced. I got into QuadBoss when I was riding quads because I had enough flats on a regular basis that I was willing to see. And it really made a difference. Similarly, I found that I liked it and Tubliss™ better than punctures and pinch flats on my WR250R. For my NC it's a little extra insurance for the off-road especially. I wonder if it redistributes heat in a favorable or unfavorable fashion sometimes, but then forget about it...

i really don't care what various tire companies say, companies tend to be pretty conservative about product associations and liability ; }
 
[...To each his/her own, but I'd rather just check the bare wheel balance first, know where to put the tire, and do it all right just once...]

+1 on that. I can't imagine going backwards and rebraking both sides of the tire from the rim so I could spin the tire and retry.

ps. I've found that certain (perhaps all?) Avons and Michelins, lack a balance mark on the tire.
 
[...To each his/her own, but I'd rather just check the bare wheel balance first, know where to put the tire, and do it all right just once...]

+1 on that. I can't imagine going backwards and rebraking both sides of the tire from the rim so I could spin the tire and retry.

ps. I've found that certain (perhaps all?) Avons and Michelins, lack a balance mark on the tire.
Yes my Michelin PR4's don't have any mark.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
I agree with balancing the wheel first as the valve is not necessarily the heaviest spot.
My ST1300 rear wheel had a powder blue arrow pointing to an 0 mark about 3" from the valve indicating that was the heavy spot.
I then mount the tire (noting directional arrow) with usually a yellow circle on it adjacent the valve (heavy spot) of the wheel.
 
The red dot is not necessarily the heaviest spot of the tire.

From Yokohama:

To facilitate proper balancing, Yokohama places red and yellow marks on the sidewalls of its tires to enable the best possible match-mounting of the tire/wheel assembly. There are two methods of match-mounting Yokohama tires to wheel assemblies using these red or yellow marks:

Uniformity (red mark)
Weight (yellow mark)

1) UNIFORMITY METHOD
When performing uniformity match-mounting, the red mark on the tire, indicating the point of maximum radial force variation, should be aligned with the wheel assembly's point of minimum radial run-out, which is generally indicated by a colored dot or a notch somewhere on the wheel assembly (consult manufacturer for details). Radial force variation is the fluctuation in the force that appears in the rotating axis of a tire when a specific load is applied and the tire rotated at a specific speed. It is necessary to minimize radial force variation to ensure trouble-free installation and operation. Not all wheel assemblies indicate the point of minimum radial run-out, rendering uniformity match-mounting sometimes impossible. If the point of minimum radial run-out is not indicated on a wheel assembly, the weight method of match-mounting should be used instead.

During the mounting process, proper lubrication is a must.

Lubricate both top and bottom beads with an approved tire lubricant. If the beads do not seat at 40 psi, break the entire assembly down and relubricate the bead areas.

Warning: Improper mounting, underinflation, overloading or tire damage may result in tire failure, which may lead to serious injury. Tire and rim sizes must correspond for proper fit and application. Never exceed 40 psi to seat beads.

Warning: Tire changing can be dangerous, and should be done only by trained persons using proper tools and procedures established by the Rubber Manufacturers Association. Failure to comply with proper procedures may result in incorrect positioning of the tire, tube, or wheel assembly, causing the assembly to burst with explosive force sufficient to cause serious physical injury or death. Never mount or use damaged tires, tubes or wheel assemblies.

2) WEIGHT METHOD
When performing weight match-mounting, the yellow mark on the tire, indicating the point of lightest weight, should be aligned with the valve stem on the wheel assembly, which represents the heaviest weight point of the wheel assembly. After match-mounting by either of the above methods, the tire/wheel assembly can be balanced.
 
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