NC700x DCT Neutral/gear selection problem

[StaleSK]

Hi,

I experienced some problems with my NC700X DCT (2012, 19,500 miles) today.
As I stopped at a red light I tried to switch to N. The gear indicator disappeared, but the green "N" didn't appear. I tried to press the D/S button to engage gear again, but it didn't work.
I had to restart the engine in order to get it into gear again. I tried this several times today and it happens every time I try to enter N.
This is what I've found out so far:
When going from a gear (any mode, manual, D or S) to N it struggles.
I can see the headlight pulsating slightly and hear a weak, rhythmical clicking from the gearbox (or there about, RH side).
Sometimes it manages to enter N after 2-3 seconds, and what seems like 5-8 "attempts", but other times it doesn't manage this at all.
The only solution I've found so far is to restart the engine.
Since I can hear something going on I'm thinking that it could be a mechanical problem.

I've checked the oil level - no problems there.
Have any of you experienced something similar?

I hope that someone can help me with the troubleshooting.

- Stale

 

[670cc]

How old is the battery? Since the engine is typically at idle when selecting neutral, it is the point where the bike's charging system has the least output. Thus the battery is called upon to make up the shortfall. If your battery is really weak, it may result in the flickering headlight and the shifting problems.

On the other hand, it could easily be a mechanical gearbox problem. Does rocking the bike forward and back gently help the gears engage or disengage?

 

[DCTFAN]

So, no problems shifting gears when moving?
That eliminates gear shift motor. The only thing that changes
between moving and at rest is the amount of juice the shift motor gets.
While moving, I believe the alternator provides enough current to the shift motor.
At a stop, the alternator does not produce much current and thus the culprit looks like your
battery with a weak charge. Don't just measure the voltage on the battery,
take it to a shop (any Auto retailer) and have them analyze the batt.


Did not see 670cc posted b4 I did.
+1
What he said

 

[StaleSK]

I actually had problems shifting up while accelerating. Had the bike in manual, accelerated and tried to shift up on the button. Pressed (and spammed) the up-button but it didn't go from 4th to 5th until about 6000rpm (didn't open the throttle all the way). This happened more than once.
The first time it got stuck and didn't engage neutral I tried to rev the engine, but it made no difference. Therfore I don't think it's due to lack of voltage.

I will go out later today and test if rocking the bike will make a difference.

 

[HarveyM]

Hi,


I can see the headlight pulsating slightly and hear a weak, rhythmical clicking from the gearbox (or there about, RH side).

I hope that someone can help me with the troubleshooting.

- Stale

Start with your battery/charging system.
If that doesn't fix it, things get really expensive!


Here's a comment from a Honda dealer & NC owner

make sure you bike is on a battery charger when sitting, any voltage drop on a dct model with affect shifting, cold weather will make this worse with low voltage. dale

 

[Short Time]

Good to know. I was not aware of how extra critical battery strength is with DCT models.

 

[StaleSK]

I spent some time testing last night, this is what I discovered:
- It doesn't seem to make a difference if the bike is hot or cold.
- Rocking the bike did not make any difference and it still struggled to go from D/S to N. When caught in this "between-stage" it doesn't go into N, D or S (the gear indicator disappears) .
- Tried revving the engine but that made no difference either.
- The harder i accelerate the slower the gear changes. If I cruise at about 30 mph with a steady throttle it changes gear when I press the button, but if i accelerate hard it takes longer (up to 2-3 seconds to change gear in Manual). I tried this in S and I actually hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear before it changed up.
- Going from 3rd to 4th is definitely the slowest when in manual.
- When i go from D/S to N (and it gets stuck) i can feel a slight, rhythmical movement in the bike, like it's trying to pull away slightly.

Do you think that low voltage can be the cause even when i experience problems on high revs?

I will try charging the battery over night anyway to see if it makes a difference .

Thanks for your replies!

- Stale.

 

[DCTFAN]

Assuming your batt checks out, the symptoms you describe makes
your DCT a prime candidate for the 'Clutch Reinitialize' procedure outlined in the service manual.
I believe there was a thread on how to do it.

I spent some time testing last night, this is what I discovered:
- It doesn't seem to make a difference if the bike is hot or cold.
- Rocking the bike did not make any difference and it still struggled to go from D/S to N. When caught in this "between-stage" it doesn't go into N, D or S (the gear indicator disappears) .
- Tried revving the engine but that made no difference either.
- The harder i accelerate the slower the gear changes. If I cruise at about 30 mph with a steady throttle it changes gear when I press the button, but if i accelerate hard it takes longer (up to 2-3 seconds to change gear in Manual). I tried this in S and I actually hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear before it changed up.
- Going from 3rd to 4th is definitely the slowest when in manual.
- When i go from D/S to N (and it gets stuck) i can feel a slight, rhythmical movement in the bike, like it's trying to pull away slightly.

Do you think that low voltage can be the cause even when i experience problems on high revs?

I will try charging the battery over night anyway to see if it makes a difference .

Thanks for your replies!

- Stale.

 

[BerndM]

Here is the DCT initialization procedure as originally posted by "smiller" back on July 16, 2016

The procedure is as follows:

1. Fully warm the engine to normal operating temperature.

2. Make sure that the stop/run switch is in the 'run' position and then turn on the ignition switch while holding down the 'D' shift switch on the right handlebar. Hold down the 'D' switch until the MIL (engine icon) goes off. You should see the outline of the the gear selector box on the LCD display but it should be empty (no D or S, no gear shown).

3. Operate the shift selector switch as follows (one push for each): D-D-N-D-N . After this is done 'D' and 'S' should show in the gear indicator box, along with a '-' sign in the center flashing at approx. 2 second intervals. (If you see an 'L' in the display the engine is not warm enough, if so then shut off the ignition, start the bike and bring it up to normal operating temperature, shut it off, and start again at Step 2.)

4. Start the engine and let it idle. Do not touch the throttle. The calibration is complete when the D and S indicators disappear. Shut off the engine and the calibration process is complete. (If the '-' starts blinking rapidly at 1/2 second intervals then the calibration process failed, shut of the ignition and repeat from Step 2.)


I wouldn't advise messing with the calibration just for the hell of it, but if you are experiencing a minor running problem such as the one I described above it may help.

 

[anicho]

Stale, I'm having exactly the same problem. Mine is worse with engine cold. When I see that Neutral can't be engaged,I rev the engine and that seems to fix the problem for that occasion. Like you I'll put the battery charger on overnight and failing that I'll try the re initialisation procedure as outlined. Thanks to everyone for being so helpful

 

[dreamer]

@anicho: Let us know if the DCT reinit helped to solve it.

 

[misterk]

I would bet 10 to 1 it is your battery


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[mzflorida]

Okay. I know I am a noob here. My bike has not even arrived at my house yet. But I know a few things about machines in general. That symptom may be the sign of a weak battery. Even though the first thought would be to go to the battery, i am leaning toward a CAN Bus error. Are there any mods that you have made to the electrical system? Something as simple as an LED bulb with the wrong resistance can impact the CAN bus. Think of the CAN bus as a plumbing system. If there is a leak or blockage some other part of the plumbing system that is supposed to perform will fail or perform poorly. The CAN bus is no different. But, as smart as the CAN bus is, it does not know that the "leak" (loss of resistance) is at the LED bulb (for instance). All that is recognized is that there is an error. Sometimes the bus can be damaged as a result of the "leak" or the "blockage". Other times, the bus will respond by shifting systems down to protect the bike from what the CAN believes is a critical error...even though there is no real error just a loss of resistance. So if there are any recent mods, spark wire, LEDs, etc, that is where I would begin. Actually, older mods need to be considered too. The battery should be considered and also could be the cause...but this seems more to be a program issue in the machine.

 

[dduelin]

No can bus system in the NC700X. Plain old 12 volt negative ground. My guess it's the battery or wonky high resistance connection in one of the transmission sensors.

 

[mzflorida]

No can bus system in the NC700X. Plain old 12 volt negative ground. My guess it's the battery or wonky high resistance connection in one of the transmission sensors.

I see. I was not aware there was no CAN bus. Thanks for clearing that up for me! If i recall it does have an ECU ECM. That is where I would begin. Again...noob to the bike. But that said seems like a programming issue should be considered. The resistance at the sensor sounds logical too.

 

[ST13Fred]

prime candidate for the 'Clutch Reinitialize' procedure outlined in the service manual.

The instruction is if the PCM and/or clutch assembly are replaced. I would assume for no other reason.
All kinds of weird things can happen if the battery is not at full song. Even adding an LED can upset the E&E gremlins.

 

[lootzyan]

If your bike doesn't have any unusual electric load like additional high energy lights and/or heaters which would affect charging system and the engine is already running, the battery doesn't play any role in supplying energy. Alternator supplies all required energy. And it doesn't matter whether battery is in good or poor condition at this point.
At idle engine's RPM, alternator supplies no less than 80% of nominal energy. On my NC and CTX, after 30 sec. of engine idle running, charging voltage doesn't drop below 14.1 V.

It could be lost of electric energy because of poor electrical connection to shift control motor, but most likely it's DCT's mechanical problem.

 

[ST13Fred]

the battery doesn't play any role in supplying energy. .... doesn't matter whether battery is in good or poor condition.

For typical electrical requirements yes but the electronic requirements of these modern vehicles demand a fully charged battery for correct functioning.
Although it continued to start OK my then ST13 clock would revert to 1AM when the battery voltage dropped below a certain level..........new battery problem solved.
The electronics in my accord hybrid is immense.

 

[lootzyan]

You should take my tread as a whole:
"...when engine is running, alternator supplies all required energy..." - electric current flows to the battery, not from the battery. Battery is a load and not a source of energy.

As OP stated:
"...As I stopped at a red light I tried to switch to N. The gear indicator disappeared, but the green "N" didn't appear..."
I assume that at this point the engine was running ... - you may eliminate battery from list of problems.

 

[HarveyM]

For me, this from the OP suggests it's a lack of amps (battery)
"I can see the headlight pulsating slightly"