DCT Clutch Calibration

[smiller]

Not sure if this has been covered before but just in case...

I noticed that my 2013 NC700XD had developed a slight tendency to want to creep forward at stoplights, not enough to really be a problem but slightly annoying sometimes. I noticed that in the service manual there is a clutch learning mode/calibration routine that can be activated without the official programming box, using only the handlebar switchgear (yay Honda.) After performing the calibration, bingo... auto clutch was working perfectly again, no creep at all.


The procedure is as follows:

1. Fully warm the engine to normal operating temperature.

2. Make sure that the stop/run switch is in the 'run' position and then turn on the ignition switch while holding down the 'D' shift switch on the right handlebar. Hold down the 'D' switch until the MIL (engine icon) goes off. You should see the outline of the the gear selector box on the LCD display but it should be empty (no D or S, no gear shown).

3. Operate the shift selector switch as follows (one push for each): D-D-N-D-N . After this is done 'D' and 'S' should show in the gear indicator box, along with a '-' sign in the center flashing at approx. 2 second intervals. (If you see an 'L' in the display the engine is not warm enough, if so then shut off the ignition, start the bike and bring it up to normal operating temperature, shut it off, and start again at Step 2.)

4. Start the engine and let it idle. Do not touch the throttle. The calibration is complete when the D and S indicators disappear. Shut off the engine and the calibration process is complete. (If the '-' starts blinking rapidly at 1/2 second intervals then the calibration process failed, shut of the ignition and repeat from Step 2.)


I wouldn't advise messing with the calibration just for the hell of it, but if you are experiencing a minor running problem such as the one I described above it may help.

 

[DCTFAN]

I do this, every time the DCT does not behave.
Every time after the procedure,
it has put the shift timing like it was when new.

I expect to do this several times a year;
and after every oil change.
If you don't do it and like how the DCT shifts, kudos.

 

[smiller]

Don't expect much from it. It's mostly done only in one case:
"If the PCM is replaced, perform the Clutch Initialize Learning Procedure... "

No, the service manual states "If the PCM and/or clutch is replaced, perform the following procedure..." Or at least mine does. This procedure is intended to be used if the PCM is replaced or if the clutch is replaced. In the latter case it calibrates the clutch. This is clear by looking at the entire procedure in the service manual, which I didn't include for brevity.

 

[mike5100]

Does anyone know if it's the same procedure for the 2016bikes? I have noticed that sometimes the dct is still pushing as I come to a stop whereas on my previous 2 bikes I never noticed this. I have also noticed a roughness at very low speeds, and think this might be connected. When I first got the bike I was impressed with how smooth the reprogramming for a softer clutch at low speeds had seemed, so I think something has changed and maybe recalibration will help.
Mike

 

[smiller]

Does anyone know if it's the same procedure for the 2016bikes?

I doubt there would be any harm in trying it, probably the worst thing that would happen is that it doesn't work.

 

[DCTFAN]

I reinitialized my Africa Twin after the 1st oil change.
Smooth as butter.

 

[dduelin]

Mine's smooth as butter after 3 oil changes and 15,000 miles. I hope mine does not start to creep or misbehave but so far it has operated just as Honda designed it.

 

[supertux1]

I doubt there would be any harm in trying it, probably the worst thing that would happen is that it doesn't work.

I did it tonight for giggles. It works. Can't say I really notice anything.

Is it supposed to train the clutches so it knows how much oil to pump in to get it to lock up? That's my guess.

 

[JDE]

I reinitialized my Africa Twin after the 1st oil change.
Smooth as butter.

I tried it on mine yesterday and I can't get it to work. [emoji53] Not sure what I'm not doing right. I just did my 600 mile service last Friday. Since then when I cold start it and put it in gear it wants to creep a little, but when it warms up it doesn't do it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[670cc]

I tried it on mine yesterday and I can't get it to work. [emoji53] Not sure what I'm not doing right. I just did my 600 mile service last Friday. Since then when I cold start it and put it in gear it wants to creep a little, but when it warms up it doesn't do it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Since it changed after the service and the symptom is temperature related, one question that comes to mind is what oil viscosity was installed? Honda calls for 10w-30 or 10w-40.

 

[DCTFAN]

I think, on the AT they put in a flag register to prevent
initializing without cause?
I adjusted the oil level (overfill) and tried to initialize,
but the MIL indicator would not come on.

Honda found us out! But why?

 

[JDE]

Since it changed after the service and the symptom is temperature related, one question that comes to mind is what oil viscosity was installed? Honda calls for 10w-30 or 10w-40.

Honda calls for 10w-30 just like the NC. I put in 10w-40 because it's what I had on hand, it's been hot where I live lately and 10w-40 was acceptable in the NC so figured it would be fine. So, that's most likely the reason it is temperature dependant. I'm more curious on how DCTFAN was able to perform this on his AT and I cannot on mine? Maybe his was not initialized from the start and mine was? IDK

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[bvogel7475]

FYI, I use 10W-40 Honda Motorcycle oil here in California and have never had any issues with creeping or shifting. So, I don't think it's oil related.

 

[DCTFAN]

Honda calls for 10w-30 just like the NC. I put in 10w-40 because it's what I had on hand, it's been hot where I live lately and 10w-40 was acceptable in the NC so figured it would be fine. So, that's most likely the reason it is temperature dependant. I'm more curious on how DCTFAN was able to perform this on his AT and I cannot on mine? Maybe his was not initialized from the start and mine was? IDK

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Mystery solved. The OP is correct steps for the NC.
On the AT, you can not complete step2 by just turning the ignition S/W on. You have to leave it ON and stop the engine with the kill S/W.
Then, while holding down the 'D' shift switch, turn ON the kill switch.

Previously, I was trying to do the steps by memory and did not work. Just did it.
The throttle response is much better and when I pin it in any driving mode, it immediately shifts down;
as it should.

If you initialize the clutch and don't see any performance change in gear shifts, your shift points were calibrated
correctly. I do not know exactly why the thresholds would change, but it definitely points to the condition of the engine oil.

FYI, I use 10W-40 Honda Motorcycle oil here in California and have never had any issues with creeping or shifting. So, I don't think it's oil related.

From all I read and experienced with the DCT over two years, engine oil is related to the performance of the DCT system in
most cases. That is also why Honda is very particular about the type of oil recommended.

 

[smiller]

The purpose of DCT "Clutch Initialize Learning" procedure is not to fix or calibrate anything. It is for.... "initialize and learning" of NEW PCM. In general, it gathers all external information coming to PCM, sets parameters for program execution and stores them in internal memory.

As noted previously the procedure clearly states that the procedure is used to initialize a new PCM module or a new clutch (the PCM initialization and clutch initialization are two separate supported functions and involve different LCD display confirmations, I included only the clutch portion for clarity.) Does your service manual indicate otherwise? Do you have a service manual?

 

[smiller]

From all I read and experienced with the DCT over two years, engine oil is related to the performance of the DCT system in
most cases. That is also why Honda is very particular about the type of oil recommended.

Honda simply recommends a 10W-30 or 10W-40 JASO MA oil for the DCT, the same as just about every other motorcycle they make, nothing special or particular about it as far as I can see. That said, oil viscosity would obviously have some effect on clutch operation so I wouldn't stray too far from the generic recommendation. The clutch engagement system has no way of measuring oil viscosity and thus has to assume that it is within a certain range, and even then various production tolerances can affect operation, that is why there is a learning procedure.

 

[DCTFAN]

Honda simply recommends a 10W-30 or 10W-40 JASO MA oil for the DCT, the same as just about every other motorcycle they make, nothing special or particular about it as far as I can see. That said, oil viscosity would obviously have some effect on clutch operation so I wouldn't stray too far from the generic recommendation. The clutch engagement system has no way of measuring oil viscosity and thus has to assume that it is within a certain range, and even then various production tolerances can affect operation, that is why there is a learning procedure.

Different terminology, but everything you posted is confirmed below.

Quoted from: Development of Dual Clutch Transmission for VFR1200F

Therefore, this system adopts hydraulic feedback control system using oil pressure sensor, which continuously monitors oil pressure to clutches, and the function that estimates viscosity of the oil through characteristics of the oil pressure responses has been incorporated as well. The system is configured to provide a flexible response to oil temperature and viscosity changes by switching feedback gain based on the estimated oil viscosity. This minimized the influence of viscosity changes on the feeling of departing operations and the gear shifting operations, enhancing the responses of the hydraulic control system as well.

The translation is not the best, but the gist of the feature comes through clearer than the singular description found in the service manual.

The performance of the clutch engagement in each individual system varies because of the variation in the clutch engagement points caused by deviations of the clutch disk clearance and the clutch return spring load. It is important to calibrate those deviations of individual systems because, in this DCT system for motorcycle, all the controls of clutch engagements are done based on the reference oil pressure level which corresponds to the clutch engagement point, and because highly precise clutch controls with good accuracy is needed in this system. In addition to that, the calibration of the system needs to be done easily in the service field when the clutch system is replaced for maintenance, as well as in the factory for pre-shipment adjustments. Taking those requirements in consideration, the initial learning method for clutches in DCT system has been developed.
The initial learning of clutch involves raising the target hydraulic pressure at the set speed. The clutch engagement point is then estimated from varying behavior of the actual hydraulic pressure and the value of that point is recorded in the ECU. The introduction of this calibration has enabled the uniform engagement performance across the entire tolerance range and contributes to the stable, precise clutch engagement control.

 

[smiller]

Good information, thanks for the post.

 

[dduelin]

This is not a normal service item. "Normal service item" defined as a maintenance item required or recommended in the owner's or service manuals at particular mileage or time intervals, otherwise the tolerance range built into the DCT at the factory is adequate for variations in oil viscosity and wear of involved parts across designed service life.

If a bike needs regular recalibration to restore to normal operation something else is wrong and needs to be corrected. If the bike is under warranty take to a dealer.

 

[smiller]

This is not a normal service item. "Normal service item" defined as a maintenance item required or recommended in the owner's or service manuals at particular mileage or time intervals, otherwise the tolerance range built into the DCT at the factory is adequate for variations in oil viscosity and wear of involved parts across designed service life.

If a bike needs regular recalibration to restore to normal operation something else is wrong and needs to be corrected. If the bike is under warranty take to a dealer.

I would agree with most of that. This is not intended to be a routine service item and if the clutch is experiencing issues that requires regular learning/initialization in order to operate correctly then something is indeed wrong and should be addressed by a competent mechanic. I don't necessarily agree that no re-learning should ever be required over the entire service life of the component however. In my case the clutch engagement calibration was slightly out of tolerance after the first few thousand miles of operation and the re-learn routine cured the problem, and if I had taken the bike to a dealer this would almost certainly have been the first step taken by the technician and if it did not solve the problem only then would they go in further. While obviously not a panacea for any possible clutch problem you could have, if you are experiencing a minor calibration issue as described in the OP I see no reason not to try the re-learn procedure before taking the bike in. But as I also mentioned in the OP, I would not do it 'just because' or as a part of normal maintenance because that is not what Honda intended. You should not perform any of these types of procedures unless you have a specific problem to address, otherwise... don't attempt to fix what isn't broken.