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Thread: why rear brake so weak

  1. #21
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    Brakes on NC, front good, rear mediocre. Coming of BMW RT with power assist brakes. So I could stop on a dime. NC's work all right and that's what I require.

  2. #22
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    Old thread comes back to life........time to review the numbers
    BMW RT Stopping distance 135’
    NC700. Stopping distance 140’

    Which could be more about tires than brakes when the numbers are so close.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Therapy's Avatar
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    Those fast stops are almost all on the front wheel.
    I like weak back brakes. Safer.

    Wait! I bet I said that earlier in the thread.

  4. #24
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    Here in the UK all the NCs are ABS so no fear of lock-ups

    I recently discovered EBC V pads. They're semi sintered and provide really good feel on the back brake

  5. #25
    Member why rear brake so weak New Commuter700's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm curious. I have never ridden a bike with ABS, my NC doesn't have it either. But I did work as a test driver for GM and I have stood on a lot brakes in vehicles with ABS, some good, some scary, some life threatening.

    Anyway, my question is; how much pulse do you get from your ABS? I think about going around a turn while braking hard and am worried an unexpected pulse could cause some issues. While I would expect Honda motorcycles to be light years ahead of GM 20 years ago when I worked there, ABS does scare me a little due to my experience. Has anyone actually activated their ABS on dry pavement? What about on slippery surfaces, do you notice it working or can you stomp on it and expect it to bail you out?


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  6. #26
    Senior Member why rear brake so weak dduelin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Commuter700 View Post
    Ok, I'm curious. I have never ridden a bike with ABS, my NC doesn't have it either. But I did work as a test driver for GM and I have stood on a lot brakes in vehicles with ABS, some good, some scary, some life threatening.

    Anyway, my question is; how much pulse do you get from your ABS? I think about going around a turn while braking hard and am worried an unexpected pulse could cause some issues. While I would expect Honda motorcycles to be light years ahead of GM 20 years ago when I worked there, ABS does scare me a little due to my experience. Has anyone actually activated their ABS on dry pavement? What about on slippery surfaces, do you notice it working or can you stomp on it and expect it to bail you out?
    First, we should almost (never??) never be on the brakes hard when turning. From Keith Code: Each tire contact patch has $10 of traction and in a turn $5 may be needed making the turn, leaving just $5 to brake with. In a straight line we have all $10 available for braking. If you are using $5 to turn and use $5.10 to brake you tuck the front and low side, bam! sliding down the street on your head. 10 cents put you down and it's a man or woman with god-like skills that can brake at $4.99. SO we are taught not to brake when turning and cornering. There are exceptions but not in this discussion, not from me anyway.

    In 30,000 miles I've only activated the ABS once or twice under duress and that was the rear brake. The pedal or lever vibrates a little, kind of buzzes. I activate the front brake ABS every week or two or month when practicing braking at the threshold of lock up. It's a skill drill everyone should practice as a street survival skill. If you ONE-TWO SQUEEEEEEZE the front brake fully on and allow 1-2 seconds of full weight transfer onto the front contact patch you find it's very difficult to activate ABS on the NC and many bikes. Once a month everyone should practice braking hard enough with a non-ABS bike to chirp the front tire to hear and feel it. Leave a faint tire mark on the test surface. Of course its a nano-second drill followed with immediately release of the brake pressure. It's pretty hard to do it without just jamming hard on the lever which is something we try and train ourselves NEVER to do so this drill helps in two ways. Separating braking pressure from instinct and practice at overcoming fear of locking up the wheel. ABS owners are not exempt from this skill drill. Braking to threshold or activation of ABS allows full weight transfer and the shortest possible braking distance with or without ABS. One day you might (will) have to brake very hard and not lose the front and stop 6" from something hard and unyielding. We need to know what it feels and sounds like without the element of surprise or panic shutting down our brains. So practice chirping in a parking lot or deserted road at 20 mph and work up to 30 mph. I know its popular to say with "ABS I can just jam on the brakes it's going to save my bacon". That's an ignorant POV in my opinion. Strive to get better at survival skills. Pass it on.

    It's important to know what our ABS is and isn't. There are only a handful of bikes have ABS that accounts for lean angle, or a type of cornering ABS. Some KTMs, BMWs and I think Ducati have it but it's extremely rare. All other motorcycle ABS systems only prevent wheel lock-up under straight up and down braking forces and do not account for loss of traction from turning and leaning while braking. Remember the traction pizza, or the traction $10 bill?? ABS on the NC700X will not prevent losing the front, tucking the front wheel under, when braking leaned into a corner.
    Dave

    GL1800
    NC700XD




  7. #27
    Senior Member why rear brake so weak
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    I trailbrake hard on a regular basis. It's the only reasonable way to force a pass if you don't have any more power than the other guy (and is required to go fast even if not passing).

    Then again, that isn't on the street.

  8. #28
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    I test rode a '15 and thought the rear was wooden. I bought a "18 XD and think the rear is wooden. But having put on some miles I also think this has very well matched brakes. I did have a Ducati that would outstop the NC. But that's a different reality in a different world. The NC does not have a need for 165 mph brakes.

    To another point, until I was promoted, I bagged an awful lot of bodies as a cop. dduelin's post on braking practice is accurate, true and could be life saving for those who follow it. I do and I figure that's why I'm still here. It's awe inspiring the power of modern disk brakes. So few know.

  9. #29
    Super Moderator why rear brake so weak 670cc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy da vig View Post
    I test rode a '15 and thought the rear was wooden. I bought a "18 XD and think the rear is wooden. But having put on some miles I also think this has very well matched brakes. I did have a Ducati that would outstop the NC. But that's a different reality in a different world. The NC does not have a need for 165 mph brakes.
    Ah, yes, the ol' wooden brakes. Whenever they're mentioned, an image like this comes to mind:

    why rear brake so weak-wagon-019-jpg

    Or perhaps a more modern version:

    why rear brake so weak-wooden-jpg
    Last edited by 670cc; 22nd January 2019 at 10:13.
    Greg
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