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Thread: DCT Issue

  1. #231
    Senior Member DCT Issue telecam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ld_rider View Post
    I guess putting the original battery, clutch and PCM back into the bike (one component at a time) would narrow the root cause?

    OP, do you have any of the old parts? Might be an interesting Winter project if you really wanted to know what was going on. You have to REALLY want to know, I imagine the process would be pretty involved.
    My lithium batt is back on the mortorcyle. Not ready to take the clutch appart though...

  2. #232
    Senior Member DCT Issue dduelin's Avatar
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    We know these bikes are so dependent on clean 12V power and were tested, designed, and delivered with ECUs & charging systems designed for AGM lead acid batteries.... why use a non-recommended battery in it? What is the advantage? Li likes a higher charge current than lead acid and charges slightly differently. Conceivably you could run into another electrical DTC and the dealer's diagnostic computer would indicate the battery is bad..........like it did at first, no?
    Dave

    GL1800
    NC700XD




  3. #233
    Senior Member DCT Issue GregC's Avatar
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    I donít think getting an attorney is going to help (anyone other than the attorney, that is). Thereís no ďrecoveryĒ here to provide a basis for a contingent fee, so the lawyer is going to be an hourly fee engagement. This will end up as a collection and breach of contract claim, and thatís going to take a lot of time with no clear winner - so you go to trial (cha-Ching). And this will take a lot of your time and attention.

    It seems like OP would be unlikely to use this dealer again. Iíd just go negotiate a number you can live with and call it a day. Lifeís too short.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #234
    Senior Member Griff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by telecam View Post
    My lithium batt is back on the mortorcyle. Not ready to take the clutch appart though...
    Given that You are back on the road and all is well with Your bike, is it possible that You can banish those awful (BMW) thoughts from Your mind ?
    It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

  5. #235
    Senior Member DCT Issue telecam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    Given that You are back on the road and all is well with Your bike, is it possible that You can banish those awful (BMW) thoughts from Your mind ?
    Ha, ha! Yes but that bike felt really good though...

  6. #236
    Senior Member DCT Issue telecam's Avatar
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    DCT Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
    We know these bikes are so dependent on clean 12V power and were tested, designed, and delivered with ECUs & charging systems designed for AGM lead acid batteries.... why use a non-recommended battery in it? What is the advantage? Li likes a higher charge current than lead acid and charges slightly differently. Conceivably you could run into another electrical DTC and the dealer's diagnostic computer would indicate the battery is bad..........like it did at first, no?
    Itís the other way around, batteries are designed to deliver clean and consistent power and automotive lithiums are no exception. I think itís time to admit the fact that the only thing that was bad on my 6,300 miles NC was the shifting motor, not the oil, not the filters, not the clutch pack and certainly not the ECU. For got sake, itís a Honda!

  7. #237
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    Batteries aren't designed to deliver clean power. It's inherent in producing electrical energy by a chemical reaction. Attach an oscilloscope, or spectrum analyzer to the terminals of a battery (without the engine running) and there will be no noise riding on the DC. Now, motorcycles, cars, trucks, airplanes all have electrically noisy environments, so electronic systems are designed to work properly in those environments. Without knowing what in the DTC system is sensitive to voltage, current or noise, it's not really possible to attribute a malfunction to battery chemistry. A mismatch between the battery charging circuit and battery chemistry would only effect the life of the battery. (And yes, electricity, like lawyers use evil magic.)

  8. #238
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    What does it mean "clean power"? It doesn't exists in physics or science of electricity, at least in my knowledge.

    I only hear about "clean or not-clean source of energy", when used by environmentalists or politicians.

    Electric power is just mathematical representation of electrical energy over time, to simplify things, that's all.

  9. #239
    Senior Member ste7ios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
    We know these bikes are so dependent on clean 12V power and were tested, designed, and delivered with ECUs & charging systems designed for AGM lead acid batteries.... why use a non-recommended battery in it? What is the advantage? Li likes a higher charge current than lead acid and charges slightly differently. Conceivably you could run into another electrical DTC and the dealer's diagnostic computer would indicate the battery is bad..........like it did at first, no?
    An automotive / SLI battery main purpose it to feed the starter, act as a buffer when the generator can’t produce the required power (when idling), and as a filter (like a capacitor) to smooth generator’s output.

    Once the engine is running the generator feeds all the electronics and charges the battery with a volatile voltage (in a range of about “what the battery voltage is” to 15.7V).

    There’s no such thing like “clean 12V power” like a straight line on an oscilloscope... There are ripples smoothed a little by the battery. It looks like image 1 (fast idling) & 3 (slow idling) bellow. (Images 4 & 5 are problematic cases with a diode burned and an open stator winding...)

    DCT Issue-dos3-jpg

    LiFePO4 batteries are 100% compatible with AGM VRLA lead acid batteries (same voltage range) and although they’ve different properties (weight, extreme power, big charge rate / small charging times, low temp problems) they’re good replacements to AGMs especially when sized correctly (to support accessories and have better lifetime).

    It’s also Honda’s choice for the latest Africa Twin... https://eliiypower.co.jp/english/vc-f...08_Release.pdf

    Whatever you choose (LiFePO4 or AGM), the battery must be in good condition and the connections tight. When a battery is weak it’s good to be replaced in time not only to avoid starting issues...

  10. #240
    Super Moderator DCT Issue 670cc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ste7ios View Post

    Itís also Hondaís choice for the latest Africa Twin... https://eliiypower.co.jp/english/vc-...08_Release.pdf
    I thought this might also be a good battery option for the NC, until I looked up Honda's price:

    31500-MKK-A02 BATTERY (HY110) (ELIIY POWER) (MSDS) $587.30
    Greg
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    NanCyX . . . . . . . . . . The 250

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