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Thread: Ricor Intiminators installed

  1. #1
    Fixed Idea Ricor Intiminators installed
    Ricor Intiminators installed
    L.B.S.'s Avatar
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    Ricor Intiminators installed

    Note: Sorry, this isn't a step by step or a how to, or anything meant to be looked at as something to use for a procedure on doing the work, it's just a few pictures and some observations of mine.

    I am ecstatically happy and beyond thrilled with the things so far, I am in awe of how freaking awesome the forks feel now... I am also extremely pleased with my dealings with where I got the valves- bakeandbike on eBay. Fast, answered emails immediately, checked to make sure I was happy, assured a prompt refund if they did not fit, and contacted Ricor on my behalf for technical questions.

    Product listing, details and Vendor:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/RICOR-INTIMI...#ht_1208wt_909


    Ricor Intiminators installed-ricor-001-jpg

    Ricor Intiminators installed-ricor-002-jpg

    Ricor Intiminators installed-ricor-003-jpg

    Ricor Intiminators installed-ricor-004-jpg



    *A couple things had me a little spooked with this project. Since there is no listing for Ricor Intiminators for an NC700X (yet) I had to throw a dart at what I hoped would be, a close enough other bike model, to work. The NC's forks are 41mm, and a Honda Transalp (of various model years and displacements) are 41mm, so I crossed my fingers and ordered those ones.

    **Secondly, I have no idea how tight a fit an Intiminator is supposed to be inside the fork tube! I know they are theoretically supposed to slide down in with a certain amount of force, enough to prevent fork oil from gushing up in between the inner wall and the valve, so that the fluid gets directed through the holes in the bottom of the valve instead, but not so tight a fit that they can't be removed easily, so, how does one know what this tolerance is supposed to be or feel like? I have no clue...

    *,** EDIT
    Received an email from Don at Ricor saying what I described as: "like a very light feeler gauge drag feeling when adjusting engine valves" sounded just right, for what I thought the clearance felt like when sliding the Intiminators down the fork tubes. Tentatively then I would say yes, the 41mm Transalp Intiminators work for the NC700X forks. NOTE! I still don't hold Ricor or Don at fault if the things aren't quite as they should be; and I don't express any guarantee that they are 100% a perfect compatible match either, so please consider this if you are considering doing an install of your own!


    This is another thing- my measurements and methods are extremely suspect as far as accuracy goes, I went through the whole day mentally cringing at the thought of what Lee would be saying if looking over my shoulder, hee hee hee.

    This pic is *roughly*, what I could gather was the inside diameter of the fork stanchion tube. It could be completely useless though.

    Ricor Intiminators installed-ricor-005-jpg


    This pic is of what the Ricor outside diameter is, *roughly and crudely* with the springy oil control ring compressed as tight as possible.

    Ricor Intiminators installed-ricor-006-jpg

    The last picture, is again, *roughly* what it "felt like" to me, how far the oil control ring was actually compressed, when it was slid down into the fork tube. I have absolutely no frigging clue what kind of tight/loose spec it should be, I will be quite deflated if (I'm going to pester Ricor with emails to try and find out what this should be) I discover that I've ballsed-up the install, and they sneer at my hack shade tree fumblings, lol.

    I couldn't see a huge difference in the spring split distance, between 100% compressed, and what I felt like it was like when in the tube. All I know is I am gobsmacked how awesome the forks feel now, I went for every hideous pothole, divot, manhole cover, you name it flaw and bad pavement irregularity on the way home, and I was giddily chortling inside my helmet with the Rolls Royce plushness and sheer excellence of el cheapo Honda "bargain basement budget forks" (The rear shock *sucks* now, lol!)

    Ricor Intiminators installed-ricor-007-jpg


    Another thing which had me scratching my head, was Ricor specs Amsoil Shock Therapy Fluid #5 to go with the Intiminators. This stuff is harder to get than Platypus teeth and Unicorn feathers.

    I poked around until I came up with the closest match I could get where I am on short notice to the Amsoil, Maxima Racing fork fluid 85/150 "5 weight". I won't go into the whole centistokes, viscosity and viscosity index thing, suffice it to say what a fork oil "weight" is listed as, does not mean that's what it really is, All "5 weights", are not 5 weight, some could be closer to 7 or 10 when actually compared to each other, using specific tests to determine these things.

    Anyway. The Honda manual specs 17.4 fluid ounces for each fork, as the amount of oil to put in. 17.4 X 2 = 34.8 fluid ounces required to do a two fork fluid refill.

    The bottle of fork fluid I bought, says: 1 litre/33.8 fluid ounces. Auugh! I only noticed this after it was too late to do anything about it, stupid me. This meant (I thought) that 34.8 minus 33.8 equals 1.0 ounces short I'd be, or about 1/2 ounce per fork. I tried to convince myself that there would be dregs of old fluid still lurking in the recesses of the tubes, and the new valves themselves would displace a wee bit of volume, so I (crosses fingers again, shrinks from Lee's rolling eyes) hoped things would magically work out okay...

    The Maxima bottle lied about the amount actually in it! There was easily *more* than an ounce of oil left in the bottle, after I had poured 34.8 fluid oz into a graduated cylinder! I am stumped at how there could be such a big discrepancy, but I sure wasn't complaining. Note, I didn't pour the fluid into each fork and have left over, I poured straight into a known true volume holding device.


    ps Technically, I *think* you are supposed to cut down the preload spacer tubes by the thickness of the Ricor valves if you want the existing specs to stay the same, but A: I forgot, and B: it needed more preload anyway, lol. Also, I am eventually going to wait for it...wait for it....Spring for some kind of threaded preload adjusters off EBay or OEM CB1100 or something, and at that time will revisit the spacer tube and see if it needs a wee bit of trimming.

    pps Also, beyond amount of oil to put in each fork there is a spec for how high the level of oil is in the fork, measured with the fork collapsed, Ricor valve installed, but spring not in yet. It is supposed to be 104 mm down from the top of the fork, cap off. I made sure to add/subtract tiny little syringe amounts of oil until this exact spec was met, as well.
    Last edited by L.B.S.; 10th October 2013 at 11:48.
    Chillin' with Cybersix and Data 7 in Meridiana

  2. #2
    Member Ricor Intiminators installed jdmitchell's Avatar
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    Same concept to the Race Tech gold valve emulator? Any changes to spring rates or just fresh fluid? Suspension work is next on my list after I get the luggage sorted out on my bike.

  3. #3
    Fixed Idea Ricor Intiminators installed
    Ricor Intiminators installed
    L.B.S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmitchell View Post
    Same concept to the Race Tech gold valve emulator? Any changes to spring rates or just fresh fluid? Suspension work is next on my list after I get the luggage sorted out on my bike.
    I am still wrapping my head around what the actual difference is between a Goldvalve versus an Intiminator really, so I'm not the best to answer the technical details, I'm afraid.

    My semi-clueless take, is they both use thin flexible steel shims stacked on top of each other, which cover holes in the bottom of the valves, and flex up out of the way when oil is forced up from below. This allows for a compliant ride over small bumps, and is miles better than a heavier weight fluid trying to make it's way through an old style damper rod's oil holes.


    The Ricor jobbie has a lightly sprung "inertia valve" which pops up and uncovers a large central orifice if a large bump is hit, which allows the damping fluid to get through in a larger volume much faster, which makes it good for damping big hits, still using lighter weight fluid.

    I'm hazy on what the Emulator does in this regard, but I think it does pretty much the same thing, but with an owner variable adjustment using different rates of springs, instead of an "auto" inertia activated one? Someone who actually knows what they are talking about will hopefully chime in at some point, lol.

    I think there is some ad-speak hyperbole and "nyah, nyah, ours does this and yours does that" bickering between the two companies that they would bitterly argue about the vast differences, but me? Meh. I have no idea.

    Even if I did my install horribly wrong, and they are barely working at all instead of as how they should, holy frack, they sure appear to do something good!

    I am re-using the OEM progressive rate springs (I don't know off hand what the rate is sorry) and the Maxima oil is called a "5" compared to the Honda spec fluid which is a "10". The Maxima was noticeably thinner, close to a water consistency, and bright blue. The Honda stuff was a bit thicker seeming and dark purple.

    On an online Fork/Shock oil Viscosity Comparison chart, Maxima's "Racing Fork Fluid 85/150 #5" Viscosity is listed as 15.90, and the Viscosity Index is 150. Amsoil's shows a 15.70 V. and a 210 V.I. I think the Honda fluid in my forks was "Pro Honda Suspension Fluid SS-47 10 Weight" but I don't know what the V. and V.I. numbers are.
    Last edited by L.B.S.; 6th October 2013 at 22:36.
    Chillin' with Cybersix and Data 7 in Meridiana

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ricor Intiminators installed duk2n's Avatar
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    Very interesting!
    -JL-

    Maņo a mucha honra

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Ricor Intiminators installed 670cc's Avatar
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    I gather the install did not require drilling out the existing compression damping holes, and the thinner oil allows the use of both the old holes plus the Intiminator's restrictions? I also wonder what the thin oil does to the rebound damping.

    Oh well, however it works, I'm glad it does!

    Greg
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  6. #6
    #1 Elite Ricor Intiminators installed
    Ricor Intiminators installed
    Beemerphile's Avatar
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    Lane. See how good it feels to be a Pioneer? It feels especially good when you escape direct arrow strikes. Congratulations. The "process" difference between the two is the "inertia valve" on the Ricors. They claim that it differentiates between fork movement and bike movement. Claims aside, what matters is how it rides, and it that regard you appear to be a happy customer. Traxxion makes cartridge emulators as well that are supposed to be better than RT Gold Valves. Problem is that they are twice as expensive. I am still happy with the RT Gold Valves, but I am glad to see the Ricors validated as an option.

    Who wants to spring for the Traxxion emulators? Next Pioneer front and center!

    A couple of observations:

    1) Matching the prior spring rate may not be either necessary or even desirable. With the harshness removed, you are likely to be able to run higher spring rates now than before. So trying them first is a good idea. It is a double benefit that the suspension can be both firmer and more compliant at the same time. You can also adjust the progressiveness of the fork by changing the fluid level.

    2) Adjustable preload on the front suspension is, I believe, an unnecessary expense. Once you get the preload properly set by setting the sag, I really doubt that you would ever need to adjust it again. Rear preload makes sense if you change loads drastically or sometimes carry a passenger.
    Last edited by Beemerphile; 7th October 2013 at 06:28.

  7. #7
    Fixed Idea Ricor Intiminators installed
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    L.B.S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 670cc View Post
    I gather the install did not require drilling out the existing compression damping holes, and the thinner oil allows the use of both the old holes plus the Intiminator's restrictions? I also wonder what the thin oil does to the rebound damping.

    Oh well, however it works, I'm glad it does!

    Greg
    Quite so, no drilling required of any components. I am unsure as to how the gizmo trickery betters the rebound damping using thinner fluid as well, I can only assume that it does, based on my so far little bit of testing. Time will tell if I feel the same way after the honeymoon is over, but I'm tentatively hopeful at least.

    I must admit healthy skepticism with the thing's ability to differentiate between chassis and wheel movements; ie: reduced brake dive, but better wheel induced bump control. (I did not notice the slightest bit of reduced dive, btw) This perfectly fine with me, as I don't at all mind brake dive, never have.
    Chillin' with Cybersix and Data 7 in Meridiana

  8. #8
    Fixed Idea Ricor Intiminators installed
    Ricor Intiminators installed
    L.B.S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beemerphile View Post
    Lane. See how good it feels to be a Pioneer? It feels especially good when you escape direct arrow strikes. Congratulations. The "process" difference between the two is the "inertia valve" on the Ricors. They claim that it differentiates between fork movement and bike movement. Claims aside, what matters is how it rides, and it that regard you appear to be a happy customer. Traxxion makes cartridge emulators as well that are supposed to be better than RT Gold Valves. Problem is that they are twice as expensive. I am still happy with the RT Gold Valves, but I am glad to see the Ricors validated as an option.

    Who wants to spring for the Traxxion emulators? Next Pioneer front and center!

    A couple of observations:

    1) Matching the prior spring rate may not be either necessary or even desirable. With the harshness removed, you are likely to be able to run higher spring rates now than before. So trying them first is a good idea. It is a double benefit that the suspension can be both firmer and more compliant at the same time. You can also adjust the progressiveness of the fork by changing the fluid level.

    2) Adjustable preload on the front suspension is, I believe, an unnecessary expense. Once you get the preload properly set by setting the sag, I really doubt that you would ever need to adjust it again. Rear preload makes sense if you change loads drastically or sometimes carry a passenger.

    Please note that I credit a lot of this to you, Lee, and all your cool farkling right from day one-you are a super inspiration to delve in and try out this stuff!

    Oh, and Torque wrenches were used like no tomorrow during this project, with a wink in your honour, lol
    Chillin' with Cybersix and Data 7 in Meridiana

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ricor Intiminators installed duk2n's Avatar
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    So, if no cut of the spacers is needed, nor drilling to the dampers, Intiminators are more easy to install than the Gold Valves from Race Tech, or am I missing something?
    -JL-

    Maņo a mucha honra

  10. #10
    Fixed Idea Ricor Intiminators installed
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    L.B.S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duk2n View Post
    So, if no cut of the spacers is needed, nor drilling to the dampers, Intiminators are more easy to install than the Gold Valves from Race Tech, or am I missing something?
    There is definitely no mention anywhere by anybody about any drilling of the stock damper rods being neccessary (that I can find, anyway) Nothing in the install instructions or online, or any e-mail correspondence I've had so far.

    Now whether they truly are easier, and done properly, I can't say for sure. To a suspension 'tard like me, it was easier, but I could have not done a truly by the book correct install, which is what made it so easy, lol.

    I diligently followed the very basic instructions to the letter, though.
    Chillin' with Cybersix and Data 7 in Meridiana

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