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Thread: What,s Your Opinion ?

  1. #21
    #1 Elite What,s Your Opinion ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramseysteve View Post
    Lee, if I'm understanding this correctly when we're in our riding position our forearms should be horizontal, or close to horizontal then?
    That is not the angle that matters. You want the wrists in a neutral position. Refer to the drawing. Flexion and extension can be controlled by how you grip the bars. I set them to neutral by the angle that the clutch and brake levers are set at to be neutral when my fingers are draped over them. That way, when I am covering the controls, it is neutral. The others are controlled some by adjustment, but more by the physical construction of the bars. Supination and pronation are the "drop" of the bars and this doesn't matter too much as long as they are not overly pronated (slightly down works). The real kicker is ulnar and radial deviation. I have never seen a bar so screwed up that it caused radial deviation - maybe there are some chopper handlebars that do that. Ulnar deviation with the stock bars is what was causing my discomfort. When I placed my hands atop the grips, I had to rotate my wrists outward to grip the bars.

    I erred a bit in my last post about the fingers being perpendicular to the grip. If you grip a tube with your hand, it will not be perpendicular, but will have a small included angle from perpendicular. That is the neutral angle where the wrist is not deviated. I was having trouble describing it.

    What,s Your Opinion ?-wrist-flexion-extension-jpg

    Edited to add: I also agree for general comfort with the importance of increasing the grip diameter some. I am a huge Grip Puppies fan. In addition, in order to accommodate my arthritis issues, I installed adjustable levers and heated grips. Sometimes I even run the heat when it isn't cold for therapeutic reasons.
    Last edited by Beemerphile; 11th May 2013 at 06:55.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member What,s Your Opinion ? Ramseysteve's Avatar
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    Many thanks for the detailed info.

    I now see totally what you're getting at. Should be a fairly easy adjustment of the brake and clutch levers to achieve a neutral wrist angle in terms of flexion and extension, but Radial or Ulna deviation would require different shaped bars, in your case of Ulna deviation a straighter shaped bar with less sweep back at the grips?
    doTERRA - I've got an oil for that.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramseysteve View Post
    Many thanks for the detailed info.

    I now see totally what you're getting at. Should be a fairly easy adjustment of the brake and clutch levers to achieve a neutral wrist angle in terms of flexion and extension, but Radial or Ulna deviation would require different shaped bars, in your case of Ulna deviation a straighter shaped bar with less sweep back at the grips?
    Exactly. I traded the stock handlebar for an aftermarket unit that was wider, lower and straighter and mounted it on Rox Risers so that it was about the height of the original, but more adjustable.
    Motorcycle don't lie!

  4. #24
    Senior Member What,s Your Opinion ? Jay Fridays's Avatar
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    I have not had this problem either. But, coming from a medical background and standpoint, Beemerphile is absolutely correct. Sounds like it's physiological.

    You have to pay attention to your wrist angles. Keep them neutral and don't bear down weight, especially if you have nerve issues. My guess is that you are kinking your wrist while leaning down, knowingly or unknowingly, and putting weight down on the effected nerves. This is similar to carpal tunnel, or affected radial and ulnar nerve damage, which when irritated lead to numbness, tingling, or pain.

    These are superficial nerves, very delicate, and very easily damaged. For instance, just sitting at your computer for long hours, while leaning on your head on your hand, and elbow on the desk (picture it) can damage the ulnar nerve. This will lead to tingling or numbness that may or may not go away. You must remember that nerve damage is, for the most part, permanent.

    Also, we are looking locally at the problem. The nervous system is very integrated and intertwined throughout the whole body. Being that you have this issue on other motorcycles, it could very well be the angle at which you are hunched over on the bike. Bearing down weight on the spine while in unnatural positions can manifest as tingling/numbness in a variety of distal locations.

    Although I assume that the issue is local, being that the radial/ulnar/carpal nerve damage is sooo common and easily occurring. If you have any other neurological issues or spinal/bone isuues, I would see a doctor. Also, start taking anti-inflammatories, and load up on Fish oils, omega's, and Vitamin E... These can help to mediate nerve healing and regeneration.
    Last edited by Jay Fridays; 10th May 2013 at 10:32.
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  5. #25
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    I have numbing issues to and considering handlebar risers.I am 6'1" and find myself leaning forward just enough to get my body out of a 90degree riding position when I want to sit back as far as I can to get the most comfort out of my seat.This seams to be putting downward pressure on my wrists and could be causing the numbness.One thing I have done to get circulation back is install a poor mans cruise control.I read it somewhere else in this forum,take a wide,thick zip tie and wrap around the throttle grip as close to the inside edge as you can,there are some serrations in that area on the stock grips,pull it snug but not so tight as you can't twist it with your finger.Leave enough of the tail end to go about 1/2" beyond your brake lever and cut it.When your ready to give your hand a break,at the desired speed just roll the zip tie coupler with your thumb,it will start to bend the tail but it will hold when you let off.When you want to slow down,just roll the throttle and the zip tie will slide back.Works great,and dirt cheap to boot.

  6. #26
    #1 Elite What,s Your Opinion ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jodey27 View Post
    I have numbing issues to and considering handlebar risers.I am 6'1" and find myself leaning forward just enough to get my body out of a 90degree riding position.
    A 90 degree riding position is not ideal. A slight forward lean is better. The Europeans have known this for years and the majority of Americans have yet to figure it out. Unless the lean is extreme, wind force should offset and negate the weight being felt in your palms. Some forward lean is better for directional control because the motorcycle responds best to push inputs on the steering rather than pull inputs. With a forward lean you are set up for push steering. With a laid back position you are set up for pull inputs. With a 90 degree posture, I guess it's fish nor fowl - confused. Push steering and aerodynamics are why road race bikes use extreme forward lean. Here is a picture of Nicky Hayden in a hard right turn. Look how relaxed his left hand is. He is not pulling the bike into the turn...

    What,s Your Opinion ?-nicky-hsaden-hard-left-jpg

    Since extreme forward lean is not comfortable for extended periods unless your body is in an Olympic state of tune, a slight forward lean is more easily tolerated. The other thing wrong with the bolt upright 90 degree posture is that jolts from the road are taken straight up your spine with no mitigation. Even a reverse lean (greater than 90 degrees) is better than upright for absorbing spinal shock. However, the laid-back barca-lounger posture is totally wrong for proper push control of the motorcycle. Additionally, the "feet forward" posture does not allow you to take weight off of the posterior with leg tension, and it inhibits your ability to stand if necessary for control of the motorcycle. If you do not think this matters for a street bike, you will reconsider if you are ever run off the road by another vehicle.

    So,

    1) 90 degrees is out for spinal comfort and safety.
    2) Extreme forward lean is out for long range comfort except for the extremely fit individual.
    3) Laid back is out for reasons too numerous to count (but may be the only way to transmit a couch potato by motorcycle).
    4) Slight forward lean is left as the best riding posture (comfort and control) for persons who are normally physically fit.

    The benefits of a mild forward lean are worth physical conditioning to better accommodate if necessary. Mostly that means conditioning of the abdominal muscles and the lower back. The greatest improvement I have made to long term riding comfort has come from treadmill work and abdominal crunches and not from the installation of an accessory. The horrible stock Honda NC700 seat may be the exception to this statement.
    Motorcycle don't lie!

  7. #27
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    Lee,
    Thanks for the explanation! That was a really fascinating read. Just a quick observation some someone obviously less informed, but I think another benefit of Nicky's extreme forward leaning riding position is to help keep the bottom of the front wheel below the top of his helmet.

    Bob

  8. #28
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    I searched the forum for "ergonomics" and this thread is the one I wanted.

    I am a beginning rider. I am 6'2". I remember feeling like the 250 I took the MSF on was physically too small for me. It hurt to ride it, and I kept trying to sit on the back to stretch my legs. Then I watched the 6'7" instructor hang himself on it like it was custom-built for him.

    After a week of getting comfortable in traffic and with bikes in general, the second week was devoted to physical comfort. My shoulders, wrists and hips were getting sore after a few hours. I nearly ordered risers, lowered pegs, and thought hard about the Showkey seat mod.

    I am an experienced sea kayaker. Beginners to the sport complain of wrist, shoulder, and hip pain, too. I thought about my posture when paddling, say during a multi-day tour where we are covering 30-40 miles a day in unpredictable seas and weather. I applied the following tips for new paddlers to my NC700X.

    Loose grip. Holding the bars tight will not keep me attached to the bike.
    Elbows in close to my ribs. Keeps my center of gravity low, leans me forward, and spreads my palms evenly on the bars.
    Straight or slightly arched back. Much less tiring than a curved back.

    Finally, unrelated to kayaking:
    Allow the seat to slide me forward. Stop fighting gravity! This reduces thigh fatigue and puts me into a nice, tight riding position even more protected from the wind.

    In this position, I am lower and closer to the controls, draped loosely over the machine. My elbows aren't sticking out trying to muscle the bars through turns. I am not forcing myself to sit far back in the saddle. I've done about 100 miles like this and I am feeling great about it!

    I am probably still going to lower the foot pegs.


    This post was typed with the worst posture.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Old Can Ride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbolton View Post
    I searched the forum for "ergonomics" and this thread is the one I wanted.

    I am a beginning rider. I am 6'2". I remember feeling like the 250 I took the MSF on was physically too small for me. It hurt to ride it, and I kept trying to sit on the back to stretch my legs. Then I watched the 6'7" instructor hang himself on it like it was custom-built for him.

    After a week of getting comfortable in traffic and with bikes in general, the second week was devoted to physical comfort. My shoulders, wrists and hips were getting sore after a few hours. I nearly ordered risers, lowered pegs, and thought hard about the Showkey seat mod.

    I am an experienced sea kayaker. Beginners to the sport complain of wrist, shoulder, and hip pain, too. I thought about my posture when paddling, say during a multi-day tour where we are covering 30-40 miles a day in unpredictable seas and weather. I applied the following tips for new paddlers to my NC700X.

    Loose grip. Holding the bars tight will not keep me attached to the bike.
    Elbows in close to my ribs. Keeps my center of gravity low, leans me forward, and spreads my palms evenly on the bars.
    Straight or slightly arched back. Much less tiring than a curved back.

    Finally, unrelated to kayaking:
    Allow the seat to slide me forward. Stop fighting gravity! This reduces thigh fatigue and puts me into a nice, tight riding position even more protected from the wind.

    In this position, I am lower and closer to the controls, draped loosely over the machine. My elbows aren't sticking out trying to muscle the bars through turns. I am not forcing myself to sit far back in the saddle. I've done about 100 miles like this and I am feeling great about it!

    I am probably still going to lower the foot pegs.


    This post was typed with the worst posture.
    What,s Your Opinion ?-5-jpg

    Being tall has just as many problems as being short.

    For the wrist try cramp buster and throttle lock.

    For the elbows move the handle bars to find a comfortable position. That does not work go to Rox Risers.

    Highway pegs for the legs being to long.

    After market vender seat !!!!!

    Good luck, looking for comfort!

    What,s Your Opinion ?-smileythought-jpg

    What,s Your Opinion ?-00-jpg
    Last edited by Old Can Ride; 4th April 2014 at 14:24.
    Why not seize the pleasure at once? -- How often is happiness destroyed by preparation, and foolish planning? Just do it. Shut the frunk up and Ride !!!!!!!!!!

  10. #30
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    My point was that I found comfort. I am confident I can do a 16 hour day on the NC700X by maintaining proper body position. I don't want to do 16 hours, and I'm certain to be sore after it, but I can do it.

    A similar point: A friend of mine spent thousands of dollars trying to find the right boot/board/binding combination to reduce leg fatigue and foot pain while snowboarding. I took one look at his setup and convinced him to loosen his boots a lot and his bindings a little. Goodbye pain!

    I may adjust the bars, but it all feels pretty right to me now.

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