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Thread: My first thoughts on doing the first oil change

  1. #11
    Fixed Idea My first thoughts on doing the first oil change
    My first thoughts on doing the first oil change
    L.B.S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Can Ride View Post
    I like the old copper washers also, but copper cost more, so alum crush washer now days.

    It must be an old school thing. I like copper crush washers too, and kinda mistrust the new fangled aluminum jobbies, lol
    Chillin' with Cybersix and Data 7 in Meridiana

  2. #12
    Senior Member Old Can Ride's Avatar
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    Older Honda engineers know a lot. But even that is being subbed out now days. Early retired Honda engineers become Kymco engineers.

  3. #13
    Senior Member anglachel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratTuner View Post
    Some even finger coat it with oil, I read, to help it seal.
    That is how I was taught to change oil filters by my father, who was a mechanic for many many many years.
    Don't know if it actually does anything at all, but it's what I've always done...

    my father also never mentioned using a channel lock to get an OEM oil filter off... (he was more of a drive a screw driver straight through the whole thing kinda guy.)

  4. #14
    Member tooblekain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
    Yeah, what does Honda know.
    If I were not experienced with working on many bikes and cars, of course I would take it on faith that 30N-m is correct.

    But I have seen many factories make mistakes and recalls and changes to torque values to bolts. A perfect example of this is Triumph's service bulletin to change the torque spec for the cam cover bolts from 10N-m to 14N-m for their Modern Classic lineup.

    A PERSONAL story regarding relying on the OEM Service Manual and later finding out it's too much comes from my experience with my fork pinch bolt with my Daytona 675. The recommended torque for it was around 25N-m. Eventually (after many wheel removals because it was a track only bike) the threads from the fork stanchions stripped off from just loosening the bolt. It turns out I wasn't the only one I had that happen. Luckily I was able to retap it and would tighten it to only 10-15 Nm as well as applied anti-seize to minimize the chance of galvanic corrosion. I also ran an axle slider and safety wired the axle pinch bolts to each other to minimize the possible chance of them coming out.
    Happiness is not around the corner...it's IN the corner
    Anyone can go fast on a straightaway. How fast can you go in a turn?
    If you're not in control and not having fun, you're doing it wrong
    The goal is to fill up your bag of talent and experience before you empty your bag of luck

  5. #15
    Senior Member buckshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.B.S. View Post
    Maybe the Canuck models got the oil filters intalled after the robot assembly machine wore itself out on the other countries bikes? lol. Mine nearly undid itself and fell off...

    Say, and how's your seat? Mine is soft and cushy, everyones else's is a Marquis de Sade device, apparently.
    My seat is good for about an hour, then it starts to get to me. My girlfriend had the same sentiments about the rear seat, which I'm a bit surprised at. Didn't think she'd go that long.

    I'm waiting for seat concepts to roll out a rear seat fix, then I'll do them both at the same time hopefully with a gripper cover for both. Her biggest complaint was sliding into me under harder than normal braking. Her complaint, not mine....

  6. #16
    Senior Member Old Can Ride's Avatar
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    Stay on those brakes guy!

  7. #17
    Senior Member My first thoughts on doing the first oil change dduelin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblekain View Post
    If I were not experienced with working on many bikes and cars, of course I would take it on faith that 30N-m is correct.

    But I have seen many factories make mistakes and recalls and changes to torque values to bolts. A perfect example of this is Triumph's service bulletin to change the torque spec for the cam cover bolts from 10N-m to 14N-m for their Modern Classic lineup.

    A PERSONAL story regarding relying on the OEM Service Manual and later finding out it's too much comes from my experience with my fork pinch bolt with my Daytona 675. The recommended torque for it was around 25N-m. Eventually (after many wheel removals because it was a track only bike) the threads from the fork stanchions stripped off from just loosening the bolt. It turns out I wasn't the only one I had that happen. Luckily I was able to retap it and would tighten it to only 10-15 Nm as well as applied anti-seize to minimize the chance of galvanic corrosion. I also ran an axle slider and safety wired the axle pinch bolts to each other to minimize the possible chance of them coming out.
    Yeah, what does Honda know.

    Use of anti-seize between dissimilar metals is laudable but you do realize its use changes torque values which are given dry unless otherwise noted in the service manual. If the threads are lubricated the original torque values are out the window.
    Dave

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  8. #18
    Member tooblekain's Avatar
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    Yes, I am aware of that. And if I recall correctly, one of my friend's actually has the formula on how to figure out the new torque value when using a lubricant on the threads to it's equivalent original dry torque.

    While I do have a lot of trust to an OEM service manual and follow it, my experience with working with MANY BIKES and CARS and seeing the SAME problems due to going by factory torque settings, it makes you wonder if something is not right.

    As stated before, factories have issued service bulletin updates and recalls, so manufacturers are not always right.

    Granted, the NC700X is a new bike and only time will tell if we see stripped threads due to the torque settings being too high for the oil drain plug. My previous experiences from the exact same problem from many others following the OEM recommended settings eventually had failure.

    Overall, I have 99% trust in an OEM service manual.



    Quote Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
    Yeah, what does Honda know.

    Use of anti-seize between dissimilar metals is laudable but you do realize its use changes torque values which are given dry unless otherwise noted in the service manual. If the threads are lubricated the original torque values are out the window.
    Happiness is not around the corner...it's IN the corner
    Anyone can go fast on a straightaway. How fast can you go in a turn?
    If you're not in control and not having fun, you're doing it wrong
    The goal is to fill up your bag of talent and experience before you empty your bag of luck

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.B.S. View Post
    It must be an old school thing. I like copper crush washers too, and kinda mistrust the new fangled aluminum jobbies, lol
    Copper crush washers was for steel drain pans which could be torqued a little higher. For softer aluminum you need softer crush washers. I've never had a problem with either. But I also know how to anneal aluminum ones. Takes a little practice and after a while they do tend to squish to the point of needing a trim and ream but that's usually a half dozen changes or so. By then I usually break down and buy a new one.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglachel View Post
    That is how I was taught to change oil filters by my father, who was a mechanic for many many many years.
    Don't know if it actually does anything at all, but it's what I've always done...

    my father also never mentioned using a channel lock to get an OEM oil filter off... (he was more of a drive a screw driver straight through the whole thing kinda guy.)
    Oil on the gasket may improve seal. It definitely helps prevent the gasket sticking to the block or filter mount, tearing or otherwise compromising the seal. It alters the required torque to provide appropriate thread tension/seal compression, and it's specified in the manual.

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