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Thread: DCT is NOT automatic transmission...

  1. #41
    Junior Member DCT is NOT automatic transmission... Canbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 670cc View Post
    But wait. A CVT on a typical scooter is an automatic transmission. It has a clutch that engages and disengages automatically upon starting and stopping. It has a belt/pulley drive system that automatically varies the ratio between the engine output shaft and the rear wheel. That sounds fully automatic to me. CVT falls under the automatic “type.”

    The Honda DCT will engage and disengage the drive to the rear wheels automatically when starting and stopping. The transmission also automatically engages the gear set as needed for the proper ratio between the engine and rear wheel. It does all of this with no operator intervention. It sounds like it’s fully automatic to me, not semi automatic.

    If you define the DCT as “a manual transmission fitted with two clutches”, what defines that transmission as “manual?” Do people think because it has paired gear sets as opposed to planetary gears, that it’s a “manual?” If so, I don’t see how the gear arrangement defines a transmission as manual or not manual. What’s important is whether the transmission operates with or without a required interaction with the operator.
    670cc - the manual transmission in a DCT semi-automatic transmission is the same manual transmission in a bike with a clutch.

  2. #42
    Senior Member DCT is NOT automatic transmission...DCT is NOT automatic transmission... kpinvt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afan View Post
    Or... Eliminate D-S and M-T switches and leave +/- shifting. Now you HAVE to change gears by yourself, right? Does it still count as "automatic"?!?
    Yeah, sort of. Remove those switches and change nothing else, the bike will shift down but not up on its' own.

  3. #43
    Senior Member DCT is NOT automatic transmission... Afan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpinvt View Post
    Yeah, sort of. Remove those switches and change nothing else, the bike will shift down but not up on its' own.
    Yes, that's good point...
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  4. #44
    Senior Member Techrat's Avatar
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    Wrong. It does shift up.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpinvt View Post
    Yeah, sort of. Remove those switches and change nothing else, the bike will shift down but not up on its' own.
    Actually your statement is totally incorrect. I had a 2016 DCT and as long as you were not set in (M)anual mode the gears are set to upshift when the engine reaches different RPMs called "shift points". I would take mine out in (D)rive mode or if I was hitting a highway, (S)port mode, get it up to 6th gear and never touch the thumb paddles. If you remove those paddles, it will still upshift on its own.

    Techrat
    Last edited by Techrat; 11th August 2019 at 08:20.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canbo View Post
    670cc - the manual transmission in a DCT semi-automatic transmission is the same manual transmission in a bike with a clutch.
    Not exactly true, the D in DCT stands for Dual, meaning two clutches. One clutch handles odd numbered gears, one handles evens. The manual transmission has one clutch. The design and function of the clutch and gears is essentially the same, but the transmission is pretty different from the one in the non-DCT bike.

    The long and the short of it (as I see it, feel free to disagree) is that a true MANUAL transmission can only be operated MANUALLY. If the machine is capable of operating it AUTOMATICALLY for you, it's an AUTOMATIC transmission. There are many styles of AUTOMATIC transmission, such as the traditional automatic we all know and hate with a torque converter and planetary gears, the DCT, and the CVT. Just because it's not a TRADITIONAL AUTOMATIC doesn't mean it's a MANUAL. Arguing that since you can set it to M and push buttons to change gears makes it MANUAL means basically everything is a MANUAL, since even cars with AUTOMATIC transmissions for the most part have tip/tap shift, or at least a couple of gear selection options.

  6. #46
    Senior Member DCT is NOT automatic transmission...
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    If you put an electric shifter and auto clutch on a manual transmission bike, does that make it auto? How about if you have the parts installed but the shifter turned off, and you're using it like a stock bike?
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
    If you put an electric shifter and auto clutch on a manual transmission bike, does that make it auto? How about if you have the parts installed but the shifter turned off, and you're using it like a stock bike?
    Again, just my opinion and not meant to be a definitive definition, but:
    Does the transmission have the capability to automatically select the gear for you, or do you have to manually select the gear? While I agree that's a bit more of a gray area (and more of a custom mechanism scenario, I'd imagine), my personal line is whether the machine has the ability to select the gear or not. Others may disagree.

  8. #48
    Senior Member DCT is NOT automatic transmission... Afan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techrat View Post
    Actually your statement is totally incorrect. I had a 2016 DCT and as long as you were not set in (M)anual mode the gears are set to upshift when the engine reaches different RPMs called "shift points". I would take mine out in (D)rive mode or if I was hitting a highway, (S)port mode, get it up to 6th gear and never touch the thumb paddles. If you remove those paddles, it will still upshift on its own.

    Techrat
    We were talking about the M mode only...
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  9. #49
    Senior Member DCT is NOT automatic transmission... Afan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronWarrior View Post
    ... Does the transmission have the capability to automatically select the gear for you, or do you have to manually select the gear?...
    Just to add some salt and pepper... If in M mode you HAVE to select the gear (shift up) otherwise you'll hit the limiter. But, as previously stated, if you are slowing down you don't need to shift down - the bike will do it for you.
    Semi automatic?
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  10. #50
    Super Moderator DCT is NOT automatic transmission... 670cc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afan View Post
    Just to add some salt and pepper... If in M mode you HAVE to select the gear (shift up) otherwise you'll hit the limiter. But, as previously stated, if you are slowing down you don't need to shift down - the bike will do it for you.
    Semi automatic?
    Isn't it the same thing in a torque converter/planetary gear automobile transmission? If you put the “PRNDL” in “1”, it will hold 1st until it hits the rev limiter. If you then select “2” it will shift up to second and hold 2nd until you hit the rev limiter, but when slowing I believe it will shift back to first. Would that be called a semi automatic?
    Last edited by 670cc; 13th August 2019 at 07:52.
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