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why black is the cheapest?

W

wildeone

I just talked with dealer and the difference in Africa Twin coloring is significant, almost 300$ more for red or HRC :(
I always had black cars and bikes and bow I wanted to change but somehow paying this for just a color makes no economical sense :)
 
There are at least two factors that might account for a higher price. One is the perceived higher value of a bike in a more desirable color and Honda's focus groups reveal red bikes are more desirable, at least to that group. The other is a higher production cost of parts in HRC tricolor vs a monotone. Supply and demand and the forecasting of demand is a complicated task. If buyers aren't willing to pay more and opt for black then the market speaks.
 
dduelin said:
There are at least two factors that might account for a higher price. One is the perceived higher value of a bike in a more desirable color and Honda's focus groups reveal red bikes are more desirable, at least to that group. The other is a higher production cost of parts in HRC tricolor vs a monotone. Supply and demand and the forecasting of demand is a complicated task. If buyers aren't willing to pay more and opt for black then the market speaks.
Click to expand...

maybe you're right but on the other hand black one looks really like bad ***, zorro...

View attachment 25857
 
Love to have one of those, but I just bought the NC and I got it for the lower CG. I'm too short anyway.
 
Some times Honda only offers options on certain color bikes. Different options may be their justification on the price difference. Originally I believe color difference made a difference in DCT availability on NC700.
 
The only color available in 2012 was silver on both DCT and manual bikes.

It seems Honda does like to try and restrict supply in certain colors to try and drive up margin. As far back as the 80s when I worked for Honda US some popular models had short supply in certain colors. If there were 10 white and blue cars on the allocation and only 2 bright red ones the buyers for red ones would always pay more for them or else lose out to someone else that placed a higher value on a red car. As a dealer we were justified in raising the asking price on popular models/colors because if we did not the red ones sold below fair market value while white and blue set on the lot for 30 to 90 days. That's a short lesson in capitalism.
 
They can paint it pink with a "save the tata's" ribbon on it if they wish. They lost a sale to me with the tube type tires. Geez Honda, this is model year 2016. If it had 19/17 tubeless (spoked) wheels instead of 21/18 tubed, I might have been interested (in a black one). As it is, put me down for a triple-black BMW R1200GS. Except, well, I probably won't buy one of those either. I think I'll just ride what I have.

I don't run a lot of Dakar races. Something like zero of them so far.
 
dduelin said:
The only color available in 2012 was silver on both DCT and manual bikes.

It seems Honda does like to try and restrict supply in certain colors to try and drive up margin. As far back as the 80s when I worked for Honda US some popular models had short supply in certain colors. If there were 10 white and blue cars on the allocation and only 2 bright red ones the buyers for red ones would always pay more for them or else lose out to someone else that placed a higher value on a red car. As a dealer we were justified in raising the asking price on popular models/colors because if we did not the red ones sold below fair market value while white and blue set on the lot for 30 to 90 days. That's a short lesson in capitalism.
Click to expand...
And supply and demand!
 
Beemerphile said:
They can paint it pink with a "save the tata's" ribbon on it if they wish. They lost a sale to me with the tube type tires. Geez Honda, this is model year 2016. If it had 19/17 tubeless (spoked) wheels instead of 21/18 tubed, I might have been interested (in a black one).
Click to expand...

are tubeless tyres really that superior? bmw GSs still use tubed tyres, new triumph tigers also and most DS bikes.
 
wildeone said:
are tubeless tyres really that superior? bmw GSs still use tubed tyres, new triumph tigers also and most DS bikes.
Click to expand...

The R100GS had tubeless spoke wheels in 1988. The only tubed GS bikes that I am aware of are the F800's which I would not own for many other reasons than the wheels. Tubeless tires are safer, last longer, and are much easier to repair roadside. One advantage for tubeless is that it allows very low pressures for technical off-roading, but the size and weight of this thing disqualifies it for very much of that. It is not the kind of bike that you are going to air down to 12 psi to ride some challenging single-track. There is also a wider selection of off-road tires for the 21/18 tube spec. I'd wager that most of these bikes will spend the vast majority of their time on graded roads getting to the "adventure" - during which, the 21 inch wheel and the tubeless tires will be a marked disadvantage. The 19 inch size makes a good compromise between the 17 and 21 sizes. Though I think 19 inch is ideal for a bike of this type, I would rather have a 17 than a 21 on a bike that was going to see significant road miles. Though I wouldn't ride it overland through challenging terrain, my wimpy 17 inch tubeless front has seen both Deadhorse Alaska and Inuvik, NWT. But I would not want to ride this beast overland through challenging terrain even with the magic tires. I'll just go ahead and admit it, I am not going to ride any bike overland though challenging terrain. It's not what I do. But I would be looking for something the size and weight of a KTM 690 if I was. I like most everything else I have read about this bike (except the weight) but the tire and wheel choices make it look like a Starbucks wannabe Dakar racer - especially when farkled with 150 lbs. of bolt-on Touratech goodies.

Even the "ready to race" KTM Adventure bikes come with 19 inch tubeless fronts. They offer the Adventure R series for the minority who want or need the 21/18 tube setup. Maybe Honda needs an Africa Twin and an Africa Twin R. If so, the Africa Twin R needs to be put on a serious diet. Honda had the chance to really take on the KTM Adventure with a bike that could beat it on a number of important fronts (price, reliability and fuel economy to name a few). It is a shame they sent it to the dance in Army boots.
 
Beemer - I'm glad you came back. I appreciate your experience - as I have little. I was getting taken by the "oooooh, look at the new shiny thing!" thing.

I like my Tenere with the 17" front better now.

If you don't mind, what are your daily ride(s). NC and Tenere for me - Tenere always on long trips because the old bones like it's comfort.
 
itlives said:
If you don't mind, what are your daily ride(s). NC and Tenere for me - Tenere always on long trips because the old bones like it's comfort.
Click to expand...

I think your Tenere has a 19 inch front tire. My current stable is a 1976 BMW R75/6, a 1992 BMW R100RS, a 2004 BMW R1150R, and the NC. Here are the others...

IMG_20130814_015233.jpg

DSC04291a-M.jpg

This picture was taken on the Dempster Highway on the way to Inuvik, NWT, Canada. The tire is a 17 inch Metzeler Marathon 880B designed for the BMW K1200LT. Very much a street tire. This trip would have required three or maybe four 21 inch DOT knobbies.
But the 17" M880-B made the entire 13,600 mile trip (which included a run up to Deadhorse in the rain) without a flat. The fastest ride down the Dalton Highway from Deadhorse to Fairbanks (about 6 hours) was done on a Yamaha FJR running 17 inch Metzler 880 tires in the rain during an Iron Butt Rally.
DSC00190.jpg

Here it is at Deadhorse. Obviously a wet trip...

deadhorse.jpg
 
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Beemerphile said:
The R100GS had tubeless spoke wheels in 1988. The only tubed GS bikes that I am aware of are the F800's which I would not own for many other reasons than the wheels. Tubeless tires are safer, last longer, and are much easier to repair roadside. One advantage for tubeless is that it allows very low pressures for technical off-roading, but the size and weight of this thing disqualifies it for very much of that. It is not the kind of bike that you are going to air down to 12 psi to ride some challenging single-track. There is also a wider selection of off-road tires for the 21/18 tube spec. I'd wager that most of these bikes will spend the vast majority of their time on graded roads getting to the "adventure" - during which, the 21 inch wheel and the tubeless tires will be a marked disadvantage. The 19 inch size makes a good compromise between the 17 and 21 sizes. Though I think 19 inch is ideal for a bike of this type, I would rather have a 17 than a 21 on a bike that was going to see significant road miles. Though I wouldn't ride it overland through challenging terrain, my wimpy 17 inch tubeless front has seen both Deadhorse Alaska and Inuvik, NWT. But I would not want to ride this beast overland through challenging terrain even with the magic tires. I'll just go ahead and admit it, I am not going to ride any bike overland though challenging terrain. It's not what I do. But I would be looking for something the size and weight of a KTM 690 if I was. I like most everything else I have read about this bike (except the weight) but the tire and wheel choices make it look like a Starbucks wannabe Dakar racer - especially when farkled with 150 lbs. of bolt-on Touratech goodies.

Even the "ready to race" KTM Adventure bikes come with 19 inch tubeless fronts. They offer the Adventure R series for the minority who want or need the 21/18 tube setup. Maybe Honda needs an Africa Twin and an Africa Twin R. If so, the Africa Twin R needs to be put on a serious diet. Honda had the chance to really take on the KTM Adventure with a bike that could beat it on a number of important fronts (price, reliability and fuel economy to name a few). It is a shame they sent it to the dance in Army boots.
Click to expand...

yeah, that's all what are being recently said about tubeless tyres but I rode most of my life tubed and I had never had puncture, yet the very first year with nc750x got one screw in...
Also everybody for off-road riding with whom I ride advice on tubed tyres for hard terrain, desert, river crossing ect etc. You can swap the tube even when the tyre goes bad.
R1200GS has 19" tyre so that's why uses tubeless, which bike 21" front has tubeless? I guess none.
 
wildeone said:
yeah, that's all what are being recently said about tubeless tyres but I rode most of my life tubed and I had never had puncture, yet the very first year with nc750x got one screw in...
Also everybody for off-road riding with whom I ride advice on tubed tyres for hard terrain, desert, river crossing ect etc. You can swap the tube even when the tyre goes bad.
R1200GS has 19" tyre so that's why uses tubeless, which bike 21" front has tubeless? I guess none.
Click to expand...

The same screw would have punctured your tubed tire. I rode most of my life on tubed tires as well because it was all that was available. I used to run tubed tires in my cars for the same reason. On dirt bikes and bikes for overland travel, I can even agree that they are still the best choice. With hard terrain, desert, and river crossings you are talking overland travel. While I agree that a 21 inch tubed tire would be best for that, I also think that the Africa Twin as spec'ed here would be a bad choice for overland travel. You are free to see it differently or buy one and go beating it across the Congo.

By the way Heidenau makes a 21 inch K60 Scout in Tubeless configuration if you wanted to run a tubeless conversion wheel. But, I personally would not want the 21 in the first place whether tubed or tubeless.
 
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