Suspension Sanity Check

So,

After convincing myself I do not "need" a Super Tenere I have rededicated myself to making my NC be the best NC she can be. As most agree, the NC's biggest shortcoming is the budget minded suspension. I recognize that the stock suspension is not "bad" but it could be better. Specifically more adjustability and the ability to tune/balance the front and rear. That said, my big project of the off-riding season (Midwest, what'cha gonna do) is to revamp my suspension. What I would really appreciate is for those of you that have tinkered with the suspension or just have lots of "know" when it comes to motorcycle suspension to look over my basic plan and tell me if you think it's a solid plan, needs some tweaks or is just a death trap waiting to happen. So, here goes:

Front:

I plan to install/modify the following (from top of fork to bottom):

- Honda CB1100 adjustable bolt assemblies. (I realize once spring pre-load is set it rarely needs adjustment. But, to me $60 to be able to make those initial adjustments without tearing down the fork is worth it.)
- Stock spring spacers. Cut down to compensate for increased spring compression from CB1100 bolt assemblies and Cogent DDC's.
- Ohlins springs. (I realize the stock springs are not the problem and that they are progressive. But, I feel like it makes sense to match the front springs to the new shock in back since, in theory, they were designed by Ohlins to work together. Oh and I'm a bit of a name brand snob. :| )
- Cogent DDC's. (I've really gone back and forth on this one as RT Gold Valves have such a great reputation. But, Cogent won out since they have the reputation of a place you can call and talk to them about specifically what you want out of your bike and they will try to tailor the DDC's specifically to your needs. Also the fact that, as far as I've read, Cogent doesn't require any modification to the stock flow control. So, in theory if I am unhappy I can yank them out and go easily back to stock or try another dampening solution.)
- Fluid. (Change to the type and level Cogent recommends. Can't remember it off the top of my head, but I know I've seen it on here.)

Rear:

- Ohlins rear shock absorber for NC700. (Hopefully, tuned well by Solo Moto.)

Obviously, after all is said and done I'll be setting the sag in accordance with Ohlins' recommendations. In the end I'll hopefully have a NC better able to deal quick jolts, more confidence inspiring in bumpy twisties and more easily able to be tuned to 2-up w/ gear riding.

So please, feel free to share with me your thoughts, suggestions and experiences. Thanks!

No help from me, I'm afraid...

I'm not one of those types to think adding (potentially or outrageously) expensive/superior quality stuff to your bike, is a "total waste".

I may not like or agree with what exactly is chosen, or the colour painted or whatever, but I darned sure understand the want to do it, and the heck with anyone who can't grasp that concept.

If you can afford it, and you want it, go for it!

My recommendation would be to get the DDC kit from Cogent. The kit includes everything you need, incl. DDC, straight rate springs, spacers, and two bottles of synthetic fork oil (one 5W and one 2.5W). Rick has designed all of these components to work together. If you get all of the components separately, he might not be able to help you as much on the install/adjustment questions.

One bottle of fork oil is enough to do both forks, so I started with just the 5W. Whenever I refresh the oil and seals, I might go with 25% 2.5W and 75% 5W just to soften it up a tad more, but it is 40,000-gazillion-% better than stock now.

The Ohlins on the rear will be easier than the Touno shock mod, but more expensive. Take your brand-name bragging rights on the rear, but stick with Cogent on the front.

Just my two cents...

L.B.S. said:

No help from me, I'm afraid...

I'm not one of those types to think adding (potentially or outrageously) expensive/superior quality stuff to your bike, is a "total waste".

I may not like or agree with what exactly is chosen, or the colour painted or whatever, but I darned sure understand the want to do it, and the heck with anyone who can't grasp that concept.

If you can afford it, and you want it, go for it!

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Completely agreed. To each their own with their bikes. There are plenty of guys who really enjoy coming up with a budget mod for everything and I think that's great because they help so many others in the process. I like a deal as much as the next guy, but I'm ok with spending too. I was just reading a review on the FZ-09 that said it's better to just go buy a Street Triple because to get an FZ-09 to handle as well as a Street Trip costs more than the Triumph does new. That's all fine and good, but to me it seems to be missing a big point of why motorcycle owners like to thinker to begin with.

gharshman said:

My recommendation would be to get the DDC kit from Cogent. The kit includes everything you need, incl. DDC, straight rate springs, spacers, and two bottles of synthetic fork oil (one 5W and one 2.5W). Rick has designed all of these components to work together. If you get all of the components separately, he might not be able to help you as much on the install/adjustment questions.

One bottle of fork oil is enough to do both forks, so I started with just the 5W. Whenever I refresh the oil and seals, I might go with 25% 2.5W and 75% 5W just to soften it up a tad more, but it is 40,000-gazillion-% better than stock now.

The Ohlins on the rear will be easier than the Touno shock mod, but more expensive. Take your brand-name bragging rights on the rear, but stick with Cogent on the front.

Just my two cents...

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Exactly the kind of input I was looking for, thank you! I look forward to talking with Rick and that kit sounds like a great deal. I know one SV650 owner I read said that the kit Rick put together for him came with Ohlins springs. So, I'm sure if I let him know my plans for the rear he can advise me as to what will match up best at the front.

vodapas said:

Exactly the kind of input I was looking for, thank you! I look forward to talking with Rick and that kit sounds like a great deal. I know one SV650 owner I read said that the kit Rick put together for him came with Ohlins springs. So, I'm sure if I let him know my plans for the rear he can advise me as to what will match up best at the front.

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That's usually more than half the battle- getting good feedback or advice from someone in the field who can either answer specific questions, or recommend a set up that they are knowledgeable about.

...which is why I stay far away from offering up suspension advice lol. I know just enough to know I don't know a damned thing so my stabs at the duck are far more trial and error, and have little in the way of a logical methodology.

I'm still uber happy with my Ricor valves and Nitron shock though, haphazard as I went about it

L.B.S. said:

That's usually more than half the battle- getting good feedback or advice from someone in the field who can either answer specific questions, or recommend a set up that they are knowledgeable about.

...which is why I stay far away from offering up suspension advice lol. I know just enough to know I don't know a damned thing so my stabs at the duck are far more trial and error, and have little in the way of a logical methodology.

I'm still uber happy with my Ricor valves and Nitron shock though, haphazard as I went about it

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You and me both brother. Should make for an interesting Winter in the garage. I almost think I should do a time lapse video of me and the wife attempting to set the sag. Should be quite comical.

Hopefully at some point the forum will have a member who has gotten to ride NC's with the RT Gold Valve, Cogent DDC's and Ricor's Intiminators. That would make for some interesting reading.

vodapas said:

So,

After convincing myself I do not "need" a Super Tenere I have rededicated myself to making my NC be the best NC she can be. Thanks!

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Bad move. I think you should go for the Super Tenere. There is an old saying over here " you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". Even with all the mods planned, the NC will never even come close to being anywhere near as good. Spend your money wisely and get the ST !

I really liked the handling of my NC after installing the Cogent DDCs with the recommended Spectro 5w fluid and and getting the sag right for me. It was night and day. After the upgrade I could trail brake right to corner apex and then not have the forks pop up when getting off the brakes and upset the suspension. Both my corner speeds and margins of safety went up with the DDCs. I did not change the fork springs. If I had kept the bike I would have eventually upgraded the shock but as it were I was able to add preload on it and balance the rear against the front.

Griff said:

Bad move. I think you should go for the Super Tenere. There is an old saying over here " you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". Even with all the mods planned, the NC will never even come close to being anywhere near as good. Spend your money wisely and get the ST !

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LMAO. I knew someone was gonna tell me I shoulda got a Super Ten. Over here I guess we'd say, "You can't put lipstick on a pig." It wasn't an easy decision. But, when it came down to it I know myself well enough to know had I gotten an ST I still would of turned around and put thousands of dollars of parts into it (of course with the ST ES I wouldn't have had to mess with the suspension). My NC is already paid off, with the ST my payment would have been bordering on the size of my car payment. The ST is a sweet bike, no doubt about it. But, I had to be realistic about my skills as a rider and what I would of been using it for. No way do I have the competency to take a big, heavy and almost $20K bike off the pavement and even if I did my NC is my commuter/long trip bike. Aside from the cruise control, power and that sweet ES the ST doesn't really bring me many more advantages. I also would of had to give up the outstanding MPG and, silly as it sounds, the frunk of the NC. All that said, the biggest reason I stuck with my NC is it allowed me to afford adding a DR-Z400SM to my garage and by next year either a FZ-07 or KLR650. (Decisions, decisions! LOL)

dduelin said:

I really liked the handling of my NC after installing the Cogent DDCs with the recommended Spectro 5w fluid and and getting the sag right for me. It was night and day. After the upgrade I could trail brake right to corner apex and then not have the forks pop up when getting off the brakes and upset the suspension. Both my corner speeds and margins of safety went up with the DDCs. I did not change the fork springs. If I had kept the bike I would have eventually upgraded the shock but as it were I was able to add preload on it and balance the rear against the front.

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Your posts sir are actually what led me to choose Cogent. I greatly appreciate the information you've provided and your how-to's!

I didn't realize you had gotten rid of your NC. Was the Tiger 800 what you replaced it with? What a great bike! And, from the press releases it looks like it's even getting better.

I have the Cogent DDC kit on the front paired with a Nitron Sport shock (with adjustable preload for carrying a passenger) in the back. It's been about 3 weeks now that I've had it in and it makes a world of difference. With a bunch of stuff going on in my life I have had a chance to do more than the daily commute during that time. However, the bike feels more planted and it seems to react more directly to my steering input. I'm very happy with the change.

Hyperborea said:

I have the Cogent DDC kit on the front paired with a Nitron Sport shock (with adjustable preload for carrying a passenger) in the back. It's been about 3 weeks now that I've had it in and it makes a world of difference. With a bunch of stuff going on in my life I have had a chance to do more than the daily commute during that time. However, the bike feels more planted and it seems to react more directly to my steering input. I'm very happy with the change.

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Nitron having the option of a remote preload adjust does beg for further investigation. Hmm...

vodapas said:

LMAO. All that said, the biggest reason I stuck with my NC is it allowed me to afford adding a DR-Z400SM to my garage and by next year either a FZ-07 or KLR650. (Decisions, decisions! LOL)

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Now you are making sense. DRZ is a great little bike as of course is the KLR. I think the FZ is very close to your NC in application though ?

vodapas: we do have to meet up sometime, I ride over your way occasionally (my best buddies live between Bloomington and Spencer). If you see a red/black Nc700x (manual), chase me down...

Griff said:

Now you are making sense. DRZ is a great little bike as of course is the KLR. I think the FZ is very close to your NC in application though ?

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Oh yeah! I love my little Dizzer! Just too bad I got her so close to the end of riding season. She doesn't even have 200 miles on her yet.

You bring up a very interesting point. The way Yamaha brought the FZ-07 into the US market you'd think they were direct competitors. I mean they had an ad that specifically called out the NC700X and touted all the thing the FZ-07 does better. I understand that comes from the European markets where the NC700S/X are HUGE sellers and Yamaha (possibly) green-lighted the smaller FZ (actually MT in your parts) specifically to take a bite out of NC sales. What's odd is in the US market that doesn't really translate. Ok yes, I concede that NC and FZ-07 are direct competitors in the respect that they are both (roughly) $7K bikes that appeal to both beginners and seasoned riders who are looking for everyday transportation. But IMO, that's where the competition ends. First of all, we don't have the NC700S. Which being (sort of) a naked is in the same category the FZ-07/9 are. Second, Honda decided to (laughably) market the NC700X as an "adventure" bike to I guess cash in on McGregor/Boorman fame? Regardless, of marketing the NC is a great commuter bike that blends practicality, MPG and fun into a package and adds the option of the DCT. However, it makes no claims to be a sporty powerhouse or really a performance bike of any kind. That is precisely what the FZ-07 does claim to be and it backs it up. It's got at least 25 more HP; dual discs up front; and a nicely balanced, smaller, nimble chassis. It's exactly what it is; a low cost, reasonably powerful, basic naked. (What you chaps have had forever and our market is finally starting to wake up to!) Anyhow, enough running of my mouth. Bottom line (in my mind) while the FZ-07 is targeted at the NC700 in both of our markets, here it's really apples to oranges in all but cost of purchase.

Regardless, if I have to choose between the KLR and the FZ it will NOT be an easy choice. I adore the KLR and everything it is capable of. But, there is a serious void in my garage of a performance bike for me. I have a Ninja 300 that is supposedly my wife's (although she's never ridden it on a public street) and I do enjoy riding that bike. But, it's all high rev HP and if I'm honest not that much HP. I want a torquey little fun bike that can run the super slab and ride all day. The Dizzer is a blast, but there's nothing that can make that seat ride all day comfy and once the speeds get above 60 she runs out of breath.

davidc83 said:

vodapas: we do have to meet up sometime, I ride over your way occasionally (my best buddies live between Bloomington and Spencer). If you see a red/black Nc700x (manual), chase me down...

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Definitely! Actually one of my favorite roads to take a quick spin on runs from Bloomington to right outside of Spencer.

Not that this will come as a shock to anyone who has already dealt with them, but I just wanted to throw up a little update and to say that Cogent is awesome. I talked to Joyce there today about the package that gharshman recommended and decided to go that route. As an after thought I asked if they offered a military discount. She said that while they didn't have a standard military discount that they wanted to show their appreciation for my service so she said they would cover the shipping costs! So, a BIG thank you to Cogent for being a stand up business and for offering a great product for the NC700 community!

vodapas said:

Definitely! Actually one of my favorite roads to take a quick spin on runs from Bloomington to right outside of Spencer.

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Hmm, would that be 3rd street out to Hwy43? Once you get out past the airport, this is a nice curvy, hilly road

davidc83 said:

Hmm, would that be 3rd street out to Hwy43? Once you get out past the airport, this is a nice curvy, hilly road

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That's the one! My favorite stretch is actually if you head south on 43 at that little gas station where 43 junctions with 48. Eventually it dumps you out onto 54 where you can hang a right and that's another fun stretch as you head out towards Bloomfield.