Over torqued bolts on rear sprocket question

surf1div1 · Jul 13, 2014

O.K...this weekend I replaced the chain and sprockets and while trying to cinch up the sprocket bolts (rear) (on the bike) I inadvertently un-locked the torque setting while tightening the nuts that go on those sprocket studs. I did this to the point that now the nuts just turn w/o any resistance. Since I've never encountered this in my maintenance prior I don't know how to get them to original or what I need to do at this point. Do I replace the studs, and if so, how is that done (double nut to turn it out of the hub?). I've looked through the forum here and I'm not seeing this faux paux move (yet ;-).

Regards-
A

Antarius · Jul 13, 2014

To make sure I'm clear...

The studs on the hub itself, that the sprocket slides onto, and that you put the 12mm nuts on to hold the sprocket in place.....

Are those the studs you're talking about? If so, just to be sure I understand, you tightened the nut until all of a sudden the entire stud started spinning, correct? And you can't get the nut off (or tighter), because the stud just spins inside the sprocket carrier?

L.B.S. · Jul 14, 2014

New hub assembly: $150.00 +/-

Probably your safest, easiest, possibly quickest method of dealing with this, I'm afraid...

2012 Honda NC700X AC REAR WHEEL | Babbitts Honda Parts House

The studs *look* like they are the thread in kind, and they are sold separately, but how to repair stripped threads in the aluminum without seeing your hub myself, I can't do more than armchair speculate with no real help, sorry.

Lou Wambsganss · Jul 14, 2014

The studs look to be double threaded. If your studs are spinning, the female threads on the hub carrier are probably stripped. Maybe an impact gun can loosen the nuts enough to get the sprocket back off. If not, split the nuts (with a nut splitter) or cut the nuts with a die grinder. You can probably repair the damaged threads with an insert, such as Heli-Coil or similar.

Antarius · Jul 14, 2014

The two posts above outlined exactly what I was afraid might have happened.

Personally, for me, a sprocket carrier isn't something I'd trust with a heli-coil.

Looks like its time for a new carrier. Sorry.

Lou Wambsganss · Jul 14, 2014

It's your choice, but a properly applied thread insert (Heli-coil, Timesert, etc) is stronger than the original threads were. In aviation, many engines and structural members use thread inserts from the factory, as a way to provide a stronger thread engagement. Plus, if there is damage to the thread insert, you just replace the insert. The hole is already drilled and tapped to accept it.

dmerc · Jul 14, 2014

Lou Wambsganss said:
It's your choice, but a properly applied thread insert (Heli-coil, Timesert, etc) is stronger than the original threads were. In aviation, many engines and structural members use thread inserts from the factory, as a way to provide a stronger thread engagement. Plus, if there is damage to the thread insert, you just replace the insert. The hole is already drilled and tapped to accept it.

This is a good idea, but the cheapest fix, if you can remove the studs, is to drill and tap the hole all the way through(look at the parts pic) Use red lock tight on longer studs and you'll be fixed.

Antarius · Jul 14, 2014

Lou Wambsganss said:
It's your choice, but a properly applied thread insert (Heli-coil, Timesert, etc) is stronger than the original threads were. In aviation, many engines and structural members use thread inserts from the factory, as a way to provide a stronger thread engagement. Plus, if there is damage to the thread insert, you just replace the insert. The hole is already drilled and tapped to accept it.

I wasn't aware of that. Awesome. That'll save some
MOney!

kharli · Jul 14, 2014

theres one on uk ebay for 15 quid (carrier and sprocket)

surf1div1 · Jul 14, 2014

1-Antarius- yes, it's the studs that the sprocket slides onto- the nuts that tighten down on a couple are just turning when I try to tighten them.
2-L.B.S.- $$$$...
3-Lou Wambsganss-based on the pic # 15 is stripped in the hole that the studs are held in. I'm probably going to take it to the place that would EDM the studs out and have them put in the coil/cert. I like that aspect of being able to replace the cert vs. retapping. I wonder though is there enough material to hold the stud inplace with that insert.
4-dmerc- I'm weighed out this option but wonder about the structural integrity if I drill all the way through plus trying to secure the stud with the Dampers (#1) fit into the hub?
5- Kharli-Do you have that link handy? The price certainly seems right..but after confirming from the posts above the striped bolt options it's EDM.

Curious as to how anyone has torqued this off the bike to 80 lbs. Thanks to all of you for your feedback- I appreciate it. The bike rides fine but obviously I don't have that peace of mind knowing that two of the nuts while tight are not right.

Update- Just called J&P Preccision Deburring (where I've had EMD done prior) and they stated that they could probably EMD the two studs and put in coils. Cost: $25 per hole and $5 per insert. $60 repair vs. new Hub Assemby of $150 plus...

If anyone out in LA nees this kind of work I would recommend them: http://jandpdeburring.com/ - Phone: (818) 998-6079

kharli · Jul 14, 2014

Honda NC700SA NC700 700 SA 12 'SA-C' Rear Sprocket & Carrier | eBay

L.B.S. · Jul 14, 2014

surf1div1 said:
1-Antarius- yes, it's the studs that the sprocket slides onto- the nuts that tighten down on a couple are just turning when I try to tighten them.
2-L.B.S.- $$$$...
3-Lou Wambsganss-based on the pic # 15 is stripped in the hole that the studs are held in. I'm probably going to take it to the place that would EDM the studs out and have them put in the coil/cert. I like that aspect of being able to replace the cert vs. retapping. I wonder though is there enough material to hold the stud inplace with that insert.
4-dmerc- I'm weighed out this option but wonder about the structural integrity if I drill all the way through plus trying to secure the stud with the Dampers (#1) fit into the hub?
5- Kharli-Do you have that link handy? The price certainly seems right..but after confirming from the posts above the striped bolt options it's EDM.

Curious as to how anyone has torqued this off the bike to 80 lbs. Thanks to all of you for your feedback- I appreciate it. The bike rides fine but obviously I don't have that peace of mind knowing that two of the nuts while tight are not right.

Update- Just called J&P Preccision Deburring (where I've had EMD done prior) and they stated that they could probably EMD the two studs and put in coils. Cost: $25 per hole and $5 per insert. $60 repair vs. new Hub Assemby of $150 plus...

If anyone out in LA nees this kind of work I would recommend them: J & P Presicion Deburring - Phone: (818) 998-6079

I was basing my estimate of cost/benefit on all five of the threaded holes the studs go into being knackered, as you just said: "the nuts", and "the studs". (although I was quietly raising an eyebrow at how this could be accomplished, lol)

If it's just two, then hell ya, go for Lou's Helicoil advice. Up here, as is typical with everything, Helicoils are more expensive than gold bullion. Going to a machinist to have anything worked on is shear fantasy, or if you can find someone, their time is worth the national reserve, and often with $100.00 minimum up front charges, plus extra, plus extra, and so on...

Sigh...

surf1div1 · Jul 14, 2014

L.B.S..it's all good. As much as I might try and convey all the details I missed some salient one. I none the less appreciate you and anyone else willing to give of their knowledge and experience. It's ALWAY'S appreciated and in no means is my f/b meant to minimize the value that you bring to the table. I might suggest even up in BC, look into work done by those that offer EDM and my belief is that the time saved in having this work done vs. drilling out a stuck bolt is well worth investigating.

surf1div1 · Sep 26, 2014

Just an update. I recently ordered a new rear tire (got about 12K out of my 2'nd tire) and ordered prior to that new studs and nuts for all 5 bolts. When I replaced the tires I had them see if the threads were usable. As it turned out they double nuted three of the studs to get them out (the nuts were the only things stripped) and found the threads were fine. They pull three out and replaced them with the new studs/bolts lock-tighting them into the holes. Good as new. It was a inexpensive learning experience for me that's for sure but scared the heck out of me once I realized that not 2 but 3 were over tightened due to the lock ring on the torque wrench 'unlocking' while using it. Anyway, thought I would update this thread for those that might run into the scenario I did. Hopefully the combined feedback and solution will help someone else so that they don't go out and purchase a new/used hub right away. It might be only stripped nuts vs. the studs.

Tim Clynes · Nov 2, 2014

Highlights the importance of using a torque wrench and checking the torque values.

If you ever find yourself in that kind of bind often the bolt will only be partially threaded and by using a thin flat blased screwdriver as a lever between the head of the bolt and the casing as you turn a wrench it will free up.

The bolt will always be a softer alloy than the pre- threaded casing and therefore thread first.

surf1div1 · Dec 21, 2014

Tim Clynes said:
Highlights the importance of using a torque wrench and checking the torque values.

If you ever find yourself in that kind of bind often the bolt will only be partially threaded and by using a thin flat blased screwdriver as a lever between the head of the bolt and the casing as you turn a wrench it will free up.

The bolt will always be a softer alloy than the pre- threaded casing and therefore thread first.

Thanks Tim for your response- perhaps it was an oversight on stating the obvious , but I used a torque wrench but had inadvertently neglected to 'lock' it and as a result (my belief) it didn't do what the wrench was supposed to do. In any case I'm fine with everything and just got done doing my 24K service (valves, coolant, air filter) and getting read to replace my brake pads and flush all the b/Fluid and replace it. Take care.

Over torqued bolts on rear sprocket question

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