Looks like I'll go first -dammit

Couldn't find this problem anywhere. I will order a manual ...now. So, I just did the 8,000 mile valve check. I had to adjust a couple of them. I put it back together and it's riding great - smooth - quiet.
I notice a little rattle a couple of days later (with ear plugs in). So, I go for a short ride w/o the plugs and can hear exactly where the sound is coming from. Great, it's right where I adjusted two valves on #2.
I make a little time to work on it. Say a little prayer it's some thing I can see. Prayer answered...... not what I wanted to see. Look at the pin holding the roller on the timing chain tensioner. Clicking on the pic a couple of times will get you into my photobucket and make it larger


It gets better. I try to see if the pin is loose (and I can ride safely). It is loose, and I fumble it right down into the engine case. Can't retrieve it with a magnet.

Now the part where I can maybe get some help. Would someone with a manual please look and see if the tensioner can be replaced w/o taking the engine out. I'm pretty good with engines and it looks like it can be done. The only real problem is the part of the pin that fell into the case...gotta find it.

Wow, that looks like a pretty cheezy part. Hope mine doesn't fall apart! Should be covered under warranty. I'd trailer it down to your dealer and show him.

According to the manual cam chain replacement is engine out, cam chain tensioner replacement is engine in:

Remove the thermostat housing (page 8-6)
Release the cam chain tension (page 10-12)
Remove the cam chain tensioner bolts and sealing washers
Remove the cam chain tensioner

install the cam chain tensioner while aligning tensioner end with the groove in the crankcase
Install new sealing washers, cam chain tensioner bolts and tighten to 9ft lbs
Apply tension to the cam chain (page 10-13)
Install the thermostat housing

Thanks long distance! I just went to the dealer and I know more about the NC engine than they do. That's because none have broken yet.

I'm just hoping the part of the pin that fell into the engine can be got w/o too much trouble. I'm pretty sure it can be. Looks like I"ll be tackling this job. Also, looks like I'm confined to my 9 mpg cage for a while -

dmerc said:

Wow, that looks like a pretty cheezy part. Hope mine doesn't fall apart! Should be covered under warranty. I'd trailer it down to your dealer and show him.

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I bought it used from a "not Honda" dealer. I also totaled it (and had it fixed) so no warrantee on this bike!

That's odd. Out of curiosity, did you ever rotate the engine backwards (clockwise while looking at the crankshaft nut) while adjusting the valves? Maybe that could cause the tensioner to put too much pressure on the pin?

Lou Wambsganss said:

That's odd. Out of curiosity, did you ever rotate the engine backwards (clockwise while looking at the crankshaft nut) while adjusting the valves? Maybe that could cause the tensioner to put too much pressure on the pin?

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I did. Because I went past the mark, I rotated the "wrong" way just a couple of degrees. I know you're not supposed to search for your marks going clockwise.
I can say that I noticed an almost grinding noise as soon as I moved it the wrong way. So, I think it was a factory defect in the part.

I would like everyone that adjusts their own valves to check that part. Even if you have the adjustment done, ask the mechanic to check it. It would be nice to know if anyone else has had to replace that part.

That sux. I hope a bit of magnet on a stick can fish the broken part out.

I am not altogether sure that rotating the crank backward should put enough pressure on the tensioner to break that pin. Sometimes the motor itself can rotate backward a couple of degrees when the ignition is switched off just as a piston reaches tdc. A motor has to be stronger than that. I wonder if the pin is faulty and you were just unlucky ?

dduelin said:

That sux. I hope a bit of magnet on a stick can fish the broken part out.

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Me too! I tried for a while before I had to go to work. The bad is it's hard to see in there. I think it will be better once the thermostat is off.

Grump said:

I am not altogether sure that rotating the crank backward should put enough pressure on the tensioner to break that pin. Sometimes the motor itself can rotate backward a couple of degrees when the ignition is switched off just as a piston reaches tdc. A motor has to be stronger than that. I wonder if the pin is faulty and you were just unlucky ?

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I was thinking that about the engine also. I certainly didn't rotate as far as it would go if it ever dieseled.

I ordered the manual and the part(s). I looked up a pdf of the parts and had all the numbers ready for the parts guy.

The service guy said "No problem , all we have to do is take off the head" - I interjected (THANKS ld_rider!!!!) and told him what he really needs to do.
He says "Wait a minute" and goes in the back. Comes out a few minutes later and says "You're right, you don't have to take off the head". [THANKS ld_rider!!!)

The parts pdf I found had the shop time allotted for the job- 2.4 hours....

FYI- they only get 4.8 hours to take the engine out. I thought that's pretty reasonable!

The parts I oredered are-
Complete chain tensioner $100
A rubber thing that looks like it would be the main gasket - it just "rubber" on the pdf - $10
An "O" ring 30mm - $5
So, about $117 (tax added to total- repeat customer gave a little break from total)
And I should get my manual next week by the time the parts gets here.
I miss her already.....

Wow, thanks for the head's up. Keep us posted on what happens. I'll definitely be checking on mine next valve check.

trey

dduelin said:

That sux. I hope a bit of magnet on a stick can fish the broken part out.

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If that fails he can always try turning the bike upside down and shaking it....

Maybe a magnet through the oil fill tube could find it. Or just drain the oil and hope it comes out with the old oil. Even if it doesn't make it out with the old oil, you could try flushing the crankcase with something thin and cheap like mineral spirits or kerosene and get it to come out the drain hole. All cheaper and quickert than dropping the engine and splitting cases.

I'm pretty sure it's still right close by the chain - maybe under it. Before I get drastic like shaking it upside down, I'll get the old tensioner off.
Probably get to that tomorrow. I have to work late tonight.

I drove over 100,000 miles in a Toyota Celica with a nut that had fallen down into the engine. It made it all the way through the engine and was chewed up but resting in the oil pan when I finally got around to rebuilding it.

daaaayum, that's bad luck, mate!

For chain tension release prior to tensioner removal, you will also need a "special tool". A small metal pin with an outside diameter of 2mm.

Directly aft of the offending roller and broken rivet pin, there is a little triangular shaped metal block, called "wedge A". In front and below it, is another metal block called "wedge B".

The manual claims you need to pull up on wedge A with pliers, while pushing down "wedge B" with a screwdriver. This is to expose a hole in wedge A, that a 2mm OD pin must be inserted into.

The explanation sounds more complex than the action appears to be, and the manual does a good job of showing the task being done, never fear. I would point out this, though. It has a NOTE: "Be careful not to let the 2mm pin fall into the crankcase."

I would ponder ways to keep an oily, slippery, tiny little metal pin from going *plop* down in there, adding insult to injury. Maybe tie a loop of fishing line around it or something, lol...

Regarding the lost piece of rivet, I wonder if the removal of the oil pan would be a worthwhile hassle or not, to check for it?

L.B.S. said:

I would ponder ways to keep an oily, slippery, tiny little metal pin from going *plop* down in there, adding insult to injury. Maybe tie a loop of fishing line around it or something, lol...

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I'll probably stuff a rag down in the hole. Just going from this mornings memory (often times not a good thing to do),
I think a rag will be easy to block the passage way with.

Hmmm, 2mm pin, eh? How long?

I will take pics of the whole process!

It doesn't say that I could find, sorry, but about an inch is what it looks like. I would probably just cut off a drill bit of appropriate diameter to a little over an inch long to start, and whittle it down if/as needed.

Sounds like a plan!

Pics coming tomorrow.
I got my shop manual Tuesday and got the tensioner today (Thursday). I took off work about four to get'r done.
Figured I'd take my time and get to know her a bit better. 6 hours later, I'm not sure I like her very much. Typical for my vehicles, nothing is easy.

I shouldn't say nothing. If the job was just to put a new timing chain tensioner on,it would have been a piece of cake. BUT remember, I had a piece of the old tensioner fall down into the engine. I fished for probably about 2 hours straight (I'm very persistent) . Never did pick it up.
I did pick up another piece of metal out of the oil in the bottom of the engine (pics coming tomorrow).

So, while I'm going by the book and have the body all torn apart, I decide to clean my air filter. DAYUMM! that thing was dirty (pics coming tomorrow). I'm soaking it Purple Power and will rinse it in morning and let it dry before putting it back in.

I turned to engine over by hand slowly to see if there was going to be any "catch" in it- as in the piece of metal getting between two gears . It went smoothly. Turned it over a few times.

I'm probably going to crank it up and see what happens. I mean, the cost of having it torn down to find a little piece of metal would be darned near a much as rebuilding it. I've had good luck in the past and I'm past due some good fortune right now.

Thoughts? What would YOU do?

Did I say pics coming tomorrow ?