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question about DCT action during turn

K

kc2ine

Hi,
I remember yamaha dealer told me it can be a safety problem in honda bike when
DCT decide to shift the gear during turn. Did he get a point or not? As far as I know the DCT transmission
is continuous variable one so not really hard gears there right or not?
I understand yamaha wanted to discourage me anyway :)
thanks
 
Your Yamaha dealer is badmouthing the competition. Never an issue with me after 16,000 miles including some spirited mountain riding. If a concern in specific situation switch to manual control. It will only override for downshift to keep from stalling and will allow you to hit rev limiter without upshifting. Hit the rev limiter in a turn and you will wish you were in auto.

Don't think you can find anyone here unhappy with their DCT and a few manual owners wish they had one.
 
DCT is not continuously variable. It has six hard gear sets. The shifting is so quick and smooth there is no upset during a turn. At least it did not concern me on my test rides (I do not own a DCT).

Ask the Yamaha dealer when it was that he/she rode a DCT Honda. Or have they ridden one at all?
 
Last edited:
My DCT has changed gears on me midturn while in the S mode. I didn't expect it or like it! I find that the manual mode suits me best and ride in it 99% of the time.
 
The thing with DCT is that everyone seems to use a mode which suits the individual best and every person is different. You learn how each mode works as you ride the bike then eventually you settle on what suits you best. I generally use D and manual modes virtually all the time. Infact on my S model DCT I haven't even used S mode at all yet.
 
Your yam dealer is just being underhanded or misinformed.

Either trait is not good for a dealer.

As for the DCT box, I can honestly that I don't think I'd ever go back to a regular manual bike again.

I use D about 80% of the time and S for the rest, hardly ever use the Manual mode.

I do use quite a few downshifts though into corners, overtaking etc etc.

If you don't want to change gear mid corner preselect the gear before you are in the corner.
When the DCT does change gear in a corner its no problem anyway as it's so slick and fast.

I agree with the earlier comment about the yam dealer having ridden a Honda DCT bike?
 
Last edited:
I'll try and find the video Honda released about 6 years ago that showed a DCT equipped and a manual transmission VFR1200 going up through the gears. The camera was focused on the swing arm and rear of the bike.

Digress to physics lesson.....When a motorcycle accelerates the torque of the engine acting upon the rear wheel causes the rear of a bike to rise. It squats or falls under deceleration. This is called jacking and is entirely normal so the action of shifting a manual transmission under power causes the rear of the bike to move up and down between gears. Because of the bike pitching back and forth/ up and down under acceleration and deceleration forces tends to upset the suspension riders generally learn or are taught to avoid shifting in the middle of a corner.

Back to DCT...because the gears shift much faster and one gear is always engaged and under load jacking is greatly reduced or eliminated. The requirement to shift very gingerly or not at all no longer really applies. The stream of power is virtually seamless and uninterrupted. The suspension is not upset and the rider can concentrate on completing the turn.

MotoGp, the highest level of motorcycle racing development currently bans DCT gearboxes because it gives a large advantage over non DCT gearboxes.

Back to the DCT promo video.....the camera shows the DCT bike going up through the gears and the rear end is virtually stationary while the professional rider on the manual bike could not shift the gears smoothly and quickly enough to prevent jacking.

The Yamaha dealer was uniformed or disingenuous with you
 
kc2ine said:
As far as I know the DCT transmission
is continuous variable one so not really hard gears there right or not?
Click to expand...
The difference between the DCT bikes and non-DCT bikes is how the clutches are controlled. In the Dual Clutch Transmission you have well, dual clutches: One clutch engages the even numbered gears (2, 4, 6) and the other clutch is for the odd numbered gears (1, 3, 5). Similar to the transmission found in modern Ferrari's, Audi's, BMW's etc. You can't buy a Porsche 911 Turbo without a DCT and it certainly isn't a CVT ;-)

[video=youtube;N35c9ksEKUo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N35c9ksEKUo[/video]
 
kc2ine said:
Hi,
I remember yamaha dealer told me it can be a safety problem in honda bike when
DCT decide to shift the gear during turn. Did he get a point or not? As far as I know the DCT transmission
is continuous variable one so not really hard gears there right or not?
I understand yamaha wanted to discourage me anyway :)
thanks
Click to expand...

I have almost have 1,700 miles on NaNCy, my DCT. She has performed flawless, as long as you select the right driving mode for the correct driving conditions.

I personally use and recommend the following uses for the 3 different driving modes:

  1. D-Mode - Best used on freeways, highways and when not stopping that often.
  2. S-Mode - Best used around town, country roads, mountain roads, steep hills, canyons/twisties, neighborhood rides, etc...
  3. MT-Mode - Best used in low speed maneuvering and when stuck in track or lane splitting.

The DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission) is has 6 "REAL" gears and a constant mesh transmission like the Manual Version. Expect the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) controls the when the shifts occur and at what speeds by monitoring the throttle positioning base on which mode of operation has been selected electronically. This system is quite sophisticated, not like the CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) which is used widely on scooters.

This video will help explain the operation of the DCT

[video=youtube;z1-1qmNpeTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1-1qmNpeTI[/video]

That salesman is FOS and does not understand the basic operations or principals of the DCT. Maybe you should refer him to this video and the many others like it on YouTube.

I had the Service Manager at the Honda Dealer where I bought mine say the same "Stupid Thing" to me when I sat on the bike. After that comment, I'd never take NaNCy there to be worked on, ever...


Fuzzy said:
Your Yamaha dealer is badmouthing the competition. Never an issue with me after 16,000 miles including some spirited mountain riding. If a concern in specific situation switch to manual control. It will only override for downshift to keep from stalling and will allow you to hit rev limiter without upshifting. Hit the rev limiter in a turn and you will wish you were in auto.

Don't think you can find anyone here unhappy with their DCT and a few manual owners wish they had one.
Click to expand...

I have to "FULLY AGREE" with Fuzzy on his comments regarding the subject.
 
Last edited:
dduelin said:
I'll try and find the video Honda released about 6 years ago that showed a DCT equipped and a manual transmission VFR1200 going up through the gears. The camera was focused on the swing arm and rear of the bike.

Digress to physics lesson.....When a motorcycle accelerates the torque of the engine acting upon the rear wheel causes the rear of a bike to rise. It squats or falls under deceleration. This is called jacking and is entirely normal so the action of shifting a manual transmission under power causes the rear of the bike to move up and down between gears. Because of the bike pitching back and forth/ up and down under acceleration and deceleration forces tends to upset the suspension riders generally learn or are taught to avoid shifting in the middle of a corner.

Back to DCT...because the gears shift much faster and one gear is always engaged and under load jacking is greatly reduced or eliminated. The requirement to shift very gingerly or not at all no longer really applies. The stream of power is virtually seamless and uninterrupted. The suspension is not upset and the rider can concentrate on completing the turn.

MotoGp, the highest level of motorcycle racing development currently bans DCT gearboxes because it gives a large advantage over non DCT gearboxes.

Back to the DCT promo video.....the camera shows the DCT bike going up through the gears and the rear end is virtually stationary while the professional rider on the manual bike could not shift the gears smoothly and quickly enough to prevent jacking.

The Yamaha dealer was uniformed or disingenuous with you
Click to expand...

I think this is the video, correct dduelin ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LmL_QzpSU
 
Vescol said:
I think this is the video, correct dduelin ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LmL_QzpSU
Click to expand...
Yes, at least in part. I seem to remember it had one of engineers featured in the video describing the DCT and it's advantages but could have remembered it wrong. Honda released several video sneak peeks at the new V4 rumored to be debuted within the next few months. The V4 came to reality in the 2010 VFR1200.
 
One of the first things any good salesman learns is to never bad mouth the competition. Dale Carnegie "How to win friends and influence people" is the salesman bible.

A good salesman will address your needs, and shows how his product is what you need.
 
I live in the state of Illinois, which is mostly flat land. But last year I took my 700x DCT to Galena, Illinois. (most mountainous region in the state) I had a ton of fun. The only time I ever used S-Mode as I was flying around the twisty roads. I was going too fast for the Can-Am Spyder to keep up. He kept sliding in the turns as he can't truly lean in those things.

The DCT was amazing, It is so nice not to have to think of gears too much as you enter, during, and exit a turn. Just keep control with the throttle. Many times the gears switched while in the turns. Never was a problem, but you are aware that it happens. The gear switch is so fast with a DCT the suspension geometry is not too upset by it during the turns.
 
The video shows a lot. In addition to swing arm movement switching gears the manual lost speed on every shift while manual saw steady climb in speed even while shifting.

Bottom line I love my DCT. :)
 
kc2ine said:
so downshift can upset the bike after all...
Click to expand...

No not really. You learn how to ride the DCT box the longer you have the bike. In the UK we have roundabouts in every town (I think they're now been introduced into the US as well). Anyway I set up my bike for the bend by using the downshift paddle. It's difficult to explain, but you learn how to use the box and you soon decide which mode over what sort of ground suits you best.
You cannot judge by one video going round a track - that is not real world riding.
 
wozza said:
No not really. You learn how to ride the DCT box the longer you have the bike. In the UK we have roundabouts in every town (I think they're now been introduced into the US as well). Anyway I set up my bike for the bend by using the downshift paddle. It's difficult to explain, but you learn how to use the box and you soon decide which mode over what sort of ground suits you best.
You cannot judge by one video going round a track - that is not real world riding.
Click to expand...

Agreed, although the rider in the vid got the bike to move around a bit, I have never experienced this and have done some hard riding around sharp bends. You should not have to worry about this at all. In the real world you would most probably never experience this, and even if you do it should not be something that will guarantee a crash. Go buy the bike mate!!
 
I like to hang the next gear. standing on the pegs coming out of a dirt corner and getting the back to step out, i only wish it had more power to keep it there.
In sport mode i have many a time had the foot peg touching and had it shift up, its shift is so fast, and with no throttle change is very smooth. Not having to unload the left peg to shift and unset the handlebars with steering input when the clutch is pulled in. These movement normally will upset the chassis, and gets worse with weak or pour suspension. Dale Long live the DCT
 
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