Helmet law

Here we go http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com...ion_for_mandatory_motorcycle_helmet_laws.aspx sent from a keyboard in the frunk

Thanks for the link! It should be a somewhat controversial topic. I remember going through this several times over the years in Florida.
Personally, I wear protective gear, but I believe in freedom of choice on most everything.

I believe in freedom of choice as well, but not when someone's choice costs me money. I don't mind idiots risking injury and death, but if someone ends up brain dead on life support or on permanent disability because of a traumatic brain injury, and it is paid for with my tax dollars or makes my insurance premiums go up, then I get a say in their decision. I also don't mind seatbelt laws. The other guy's individual freedom ends at my wallet.

AdamW said:

I believe in freedom of choice as well, but not when someone's choice costs me money. I don't mind idiots risking injury and death, but if someone ends up brain dead on life support or on permanent disability because of a traumatic brain injury, and it is paid for with my tax dollars or makes my insurance premiums go up, then I get a say in their decision. I also don't mind seatbelt laws. The other guy's individual freedom ends at my wallet.

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Agreed, this is my entire issue with this. Since there is no insurance mandate for riding without a helmet (additional insurance to cover severe brain trauma) then I have no problem with mandated helmet laws. If there was some sort of mandated umbrella insurance ('umbrella' is code for it also covers those who were too lazy to get the insurance) then I'd have no problem with the freedom to not wear a helmet.

Driving/riding is a privilege, not a right. Seatbelt laws don't prevent accidents but in numerous cases, seatbelts do lessen injuries/deaths. Any organization which claim safety and don't recommend the mandatory use of helmets lose my money (listen AMA, change your position or this is one member which will take my wallet and leave)-the same reason I don't belong to ABATE. Any time their choice is going to affect my wallet, they are not receiving my support.

I find it interesting that they think there would be an economic impact as treating injured helmet users would a lower cost than treating non-helmet users...

Of course the flip side (that they mention even) is a reduction of deaths.

A statistics prof told a story once, it went something like this:
in WWI it was found that the most severe injury taking the longest to recover from, and the leading cause of mortality was head injuries. As a result military brass change the uniform to include a metal helmet, replacing a former cloth cap. The results were surprising, the number of head injuries reported at hospitals was nearly double what it had been previously.

What was left out of the story is that the number of head injury related deaths PRIOR to the hospital had dropped significantly, and overall the number of deaths was down dramatically, and the number of injured was up an almost identical amount. Helmets didn't reduce injury, they reduced mortality.

That being said, in motorcycling I fear that the numbers would be similar... if everyone wore a helmet a lot fewer people would die (which is likely a good thing) however, those people who were previously dieing because they did not have a helmet would now be injured, and require medical care.

While I know this makes me sound like a cold hearted bastard, if people die quickly on the scene of an accident, it costs less in medical care for them, increasing the number of people who don't die quickly is more likely to increase the cost of medical care over all.

I don't have the data to look at to know if that is for sure the case, but unless there are a large number of motorcycle accidents where a helmet would have made the crash a complete non-issue for the rider's health, and a serious medical bill, I don't think the economics necessarily supports mandatory helmet usage.







All of that being said, you get in my car, you get on my bike, you will have a seat belt and a helmet respectively.
You sit in the back seat of my car and say "I don't need to wear a seatbelt in the back because I'm over such and such age, and the law doesn't require it." one of two things will happen, I will pull over, and we won't be going anywhere until you get out, or you put a belt on, OR I will drive in such a manor that you will quickly realize that a seat belt is required, if only to stay in your seat. no one has the right to risk being a projectile in my car while I'm driving, and I will see to it that you either do not become one, or are shown in a controlled manor that you can become one.

I wear my helmet all the time but I feel that it should be ones choice. I personally just don't feel safe without it. I do agree that my livelihood should not be affected by there choice but I'm not sure how they go about that. Slowly but surely we continue to loose our freedoms. That's all I'll say about that.

All the seat belt, helmet, and any laws have gotten way to political. If you vote for this dude who promises what you want to hear, then that is Freedom?
Everyone has their own definition of "Freedom".

[video=youtube;9R4j-AKXSDo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R4j-AKXSDo[/video]

What Thump said. Always wear mine. Don't care if you wear yours. If you're friend/family, I'll tell you you're an idiot, but in the end, you've gotta make your own choices.

I've never paid that much attention to state helmet laws because they didn't apply to me. After 41 years of either being in the Air Force or working on a federal installation, both of which required motorcycle riders to wear helmets, I never really had a choice. It became such an ingrained habit that I automatically put on the helmet before I get on the bike. I somehow don't feel comfortable without it.
Having said that, I don't think states should mandate helmet use, but I do believe they should be smart about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Florida completely did away with mandatory helmet requirements. I think the law says that you have to wear a helmet unless you're above a certain age and have personal injury insurance. If all the states have the same requirements, I figure it will only be a matter of time before insurance companies come up with a way to limit the coverage of anyone involved in an accident who wasn't wearing a helmet. Like I said before, I could very well be wrong but I have a lot of confidence in insurance companies' abilities to limit their losses. Of course the above applies to the USA. I don't know how it works in other countries.
Bottom line is that I firmly believe that anyone who really wants a Darwin Award should be allowed to compete for one.

Bob

People probably end up paying out far more in relation to government expenditures arising from people being poorly educated but nobody clamors for mandatory quality of education.

Nothing costs quite so much as ignorance.

I agree with the freedom of choice camp but I also always wear a helmet and full gear. My primary reasons for wearing a helmet are two-fold. First, I like my face and while arguably not the handsomest, I've grown quite attached to it over the years. I hear that skin grafts are very painful and I am reasonably sure I would not quite look the same if my face had to be rebuilt out of skin from my butt or thighs. Second, I tend to keep important things in my brain like memories, my ATM card PIN code and instructions for little things like feeding myself, and wiping my butt. I would prefer not to end up in a condition where others might have to perform these latter tasks for me.

It’s ironic to me we buy cases to protect our phones and tablets and padded bags to protect our laptops because we don’t want them damaged or worse yet lose any important information should they be dropped. Yet some will have their unprotected bare heads, which arguably in many (but not all) cases hold a lot more information and some intelligence, hurtled through space unprotected at many miles per hour.

If I crashed, I guess there really are no conclusive studies that could predict whether or not a helmet would or would not save my life but I know for a fact that after a ride I would much rather be cleaning the insect carnage off my faceshield then off my face and from between my teeth. So for me, the protection a helmet provides for head trauma is just as important as the protection it provides for a kamakazi bee from hitting me in the face.

I like how you broke that down. Especially the part about how we go out of our way to protect other items. Really never thought about it that way but it is a good analogy.

On the one hand I understand the argument that mandated safety theoretically reduces tax/insurance cost but my issue with it is where does it stop or does it ever stop? Does it keep going until you are required to eat a specific diet, required to perform a specific exercise program, basically every aspect of your day is controlled all in the name of reducing cost. Where do you draw the line?

Signs, signs every where a sign.

[video=youtube;gklM1AiZX0s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gklM1AiZX0s[/video]

Gotta have car insurance, gotta have health insurance, gotta wear a helmet.... Sure glad "they" want me to pay for what "they" demand.... So next on the you "gotta" comply list will start with the statement that motorcycles aren't really safe to ride even with a helmet, then it will be you gotta get rid of that bike or you can't have health insurance, and you already gotta have health insurance.....

chip, chip, chip..... slowly but surely, what you think is good or fun will be removed.... The Nanny State is in full swing baby! I'm kinda glad I'm old, hopefully I'll be dead before "they" say I can't ride....

OldJeff said:

Gotta have car insurance, gotta have health insurance, gotta wear a helmet.... Sure glad "they" want me to pay for what "they" demand.... So next on the you "gotta" comply list will start with the statement that motorcycles aren't really safe to ride even with a helmet, then it will be you gotta get rid of that bike or you can't have health insurance, and you already gotta have health insurance.....

chip, chip, chip..... slowly but surely, what you think is good or fun will be removed.... The Nanny State is in full swing baby! I'm kinda glad I'm old, hopefully I'll be dead before "they" say I can't ride....

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We will be okay. They'd probably have to treat any anti bike legislation like health care. To get the necessary votes they'd have to say if you already ride, we will "grandfather" you and as long as you are happy with your current riding habits you will be able to continue as long as you.........uh never mind, bad example. You're right, we're hosed.

Bob

Spaceteach said:

Bottom line is that I firmly believe that anyone who really wants a Darwin Award should be allowed to compete for one.
Bob

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I agree, as long as we can ensure that they don't reproduce before they win the award.

Mike Cash said:

...but nobody clamors for mandatory quality of education.

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Teachers, parents, and others have been doing just that for years. It's just that most people don't want to pay for it.

When I was a member of MSTA, the organizers of group rides would turn away anybody who showed up without a helmet and boots.