Front Suspension upgrade?

I know Beemer sent his to Racetech but I'm wondering if anyone has done anything different? I really don't want to spend $500 on my forks. I just installed an Ohlin on the rear and the improvement is amazing. Thanks in advance,

I put the RaceTech Goldvalve Emulators in my NC700X forks (kit FEGV S4101). The kit cost me only $126 from PowersportParts.net. Do not buy direct from RaceTech; even with their AMA discounts they are higher priced direct.

I did the labor. I left the stock springs in place because they seem fine for my weight and riding style. The emulators are adjustable so I think you can tune it however you like. My main goal was to get rid of the jolt from sharp raised bumps. I think it succeeded at that, but I will continue to fine tune them as time goes on.

I, too, am considering the Ohlin on the rear. Thanks for your positive feedback. I think suspension upgrades are the best thing you can do for this bike once your seat and bars are sorted out. That is, unless you're blessed with super smooth roads where you ride.

Greg

Gene,
What kind of improvements did you notice? I suppose the Ohlin firmed up the rear a bit? I've noticed a couple times with hard downshifts to 2nd or 1st, I've gotten the rear to skip sideways. Maybe the Ohlin would keep the rear a little more planted in this situation?

I put progressives 440s on the rear of my 2003 sportster and progressives/race techs in the front. Of course, that handled like a dog with stock suspension. The improvement in the front on the sportster was getting rid of the dive on braking, and much more confidence in high speed cornering. The one thing my Sportster could have used was a fork brace. There were some ramps that I take at 75+ where I felt like the front was twisting a bit on uneven pavement. I think the lighter weight, and maybe lower cog of the NC700 puts less twisting stress on the front end.

Regards.
Paul

670cc said:

I put the RaceTech Goldvalve Emulators in my NC700X forks (kit FEGV S4101). The kit cost me only $126 from PowersportParts.net. Do not buy direct from RaceTech; even with their AMA discounts they are higher priced direct.

I did the labor. I left the stock springs in place because they seem fine for my weight and riding style. The emulators are adjustable so I think you can tune it however you like. My main goal was to get rid of the jolt from sharp raised bumps. I think it succeeded at that, but I will continue to fine tune them as time goes on.

I, too, am considering the Ohlin on the rear. Thanks for your positive feedback. I think suspension upgrades are the best thing you can do for this bike once your seat and bars are sorted out. That is, unless you're blessed with super smooth roads where you ride.

Greg

Click to expand...

Greg,
What do you weigh? I'm at 200# before I get dressed to ride. I'm fairly certain I will need a higher spring rate.

bonnielover said:

Gene,
What kind of improvements did you notice? I suppose the Ohlin firmed up the rear a bit? I've noticed a couple times with hard downshifts to 2nd or 1st, I've gotten the rear to skip sideways. Maybe the Ohlin would keep the rear a little more planted in this situation?

I put progressives 440s on the rear of my 2003 sportster and progressives/race techs in the front. Of course, that handled like a dog with stock suspension. The improvement in the front on the sportster was getting rid of the dive on braking, and much more confidence in high speed cornering. The one thing my Sportster could have used was a fork brace. There were some ramps that I take at 75+ where I felt like the front was twisting a bit on uneven pavement. I think the lighter weight, and maybe lower cog of the NC700 puts less twisting stress on the front end.

Regards.
Paul

Click to expand...

Paul,
As Greg said, I was looking to improve the sharp edged bump jolt and be able to adjust the spring preload. I bought my Ohlin with a hyd. preload adjuster.

gkgeiger said:

Greg,
What do you weigh? I'm at 200# before I get dressed to ride. I'm fairly certain I will need a higher spring rate.

Click to expand...

I'm 165# give or take a few before gearing up. I always ride the NC solo.

Greg

What's wrong with the OEM suspension? I'm asking the question because I don't have one yet to know for myslef. The improved suspension over what I currently ride would be the biggest reason I'd buy one.

If I had to spend another thousand for an acceptable suspension, then I'd probably skip the purchase entirely.

Chris

Daboo said:

What's wrong with the OEM suspension? I'm asking the question because I don't have one yet to know for myslef. The improved suspension over what I currently ride would be the biggest reason I'd buy one.

If I had to spend another thousand for an acceptable suspension, then I'd probably skip the purchase entirely.

Chris

Click to expand...

I'm sure the stock suspension is fine for some people. It will get you from here to there. It is a basic none adjustable fork and shock arrangement. I'm just looking for something better. I've been riding BMW's for a few hundred thousand miles and the NC doesn't compare in ride quality.

Daboo said:

What's wrong with the OEM suspension? I'm asking the question because I don't have one yet to know for myslef. The improved suspension over what I currently ride would be the biggest reason I'd buy one.

If I had to spend another thousand for an acceptable suspension, then I'd probably skip the purchase entirely.

Chris

Click to expand...

It sounds like the biggest complaint is the harshness of the suspension on high-speed bumps and rough roads. I will be saving up for racetech up front and Ohlins in back.

670cc said:

I put the RaceTech Goldvalve Emulators in my NC700X forks (kit FEGV S4101). The kit cost me only $126 from PowersportParts.net. Do not buy direct from RaceTech; even with their AMA discounts they are higher priced direct.

I did the labor. I left the stock springs in place because they seem fine for my weight and riding style. The emulators are adjustable so I think you can tune it however you like. My main goal was to get rid of the jolt from sharp raised bumps. I think it succeeded at that, but I will continue to fine tune them as time goes on.

Click to expand...

Greg,

Did you drill out the original damping ports? They need to be open so that the GV emulator can take over control. As far as the springs, the RT springs are single rate where the stock ones are multi-rate. In RT's view it complicates getting the right setup. They choose to tailor the progressivenss of the suspension with fluid level. I chose to let RaceTech do the spec and install because I wanted the benefit of their experience in choosing and installing the hardware. You may be well capable of the job, but I doubt that most people here are - including me. As far as what is wrong with the stock suspension, to me it has WAY too much high speed compression damping to provide good suspension compliance over rough roads at speed.

Beemerphile said:

Greg,

Did you drill out the original damping ports? They need to be open so that the GV emulator can take over control. As far as the springs, the RT springs are single rate where the stock ones are multi-rate. In RT's view it complicates getting the right setup. They choose to tailor the progressivenss of the suspension with fluid level. I chose to let RaceTech do the spec and install because I wanted the benefit of their experience in choosing and installing the hardware. You may be well capable of the job, but I doubt that most people here are - including me. As far as what is wrong with the stock suspension, to me it has WAY too much high speed compression damping to provide good suspension compliance over rough roads at speed.

Click to expand...

According to RaceTech, the inability to respond quickly to sharp bumps is an inherent trait of simple damper rod forks. If you design them so they respond to quick bumps, then they are too mushy the rest of the time. Where they claim their design excells is that overall damping is good, but the valves can open up to handle rapid compression from square edge bumps.

The GV Emulators come with instructions that are fairly clear.

Yes, the original compression damper holes were drilled out per the instructions. They must be drilled so that control is taken over by the emulators instead of the original damper rods. This part of the job takes the longest, but it's just that: drilling some holes. A drill press is highly desired for a clean job, but even a crude job will probably still work. The rebound holes are left alone, also per the instructions.

I shortened the preload spacers by an amount equivalent to the thickness of the emulators, so the sag is set the same as stock. All that's left then is to choose how many turns preload to put on the GV springs, and give it a whirl. The instructions give some guidelines. If you don't like it, you have to pull the fork caps and springs, and fish the emulators out with a piece of wire to adjust them. That's not great fun but it's do-able. But at least after the initial install, the forks will not need to be removed from the bike.

This is the second set of forks that I have done. The first was the simple Kawasaki "classic" EX250 forks, designed in the late '80s. And guess what, the NC700X forks are of exactly the same design.

I really didn't think it was a difficult job. I would rate it easier than some of the farkles you have attempted, Beemer.

Greg

Greg, what about oil weight and quantity? The same than OEM?

duk2n said:

Greg, what about oil weight and quantity? The same than OEM?

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The stock Honda oil is supposedly a 10 weight oil. I used Belray brand 10w fork oil filled to the same level as the Honda manual specifies.

If you wanted more advice, or perhaps oil options based on your weight or ride preferences, you can probably contact Racetech and ask.

Greg

Everyone I know of that installed or had Racetech install emulators and springs used 15 weight fork oil. Since there were three different spring tensions used by those posters, it seems Racetech is recommending 15 wt oil regardless of rider weight or spring tension. I'd guess, based on that, that they'd probably recommend the 15 wt for stock springs and emulators also.

Bob

Just an FYI...

I replaced the rear shock on my VFR800 with a used Honda 929 shock and an added spacer to match the length of the OEM shock. The 929 shock is a pretty close match for the OEM VFR shock but has adjustable damping and an oil reservoir. This is a common suspension mod for older VFRs that makes a huge difference and costs a lot less than a new Ohlin. I think I paid under $175 for the shock and heavier spring for my weight. I'm sure something similar could be done on the NC700's instead of buying an expensive Ohlin shock.

As for springs...
Race Tech uses straight rate springs but you can also buy progressive rate springs from other companies.
For the NC you want straight rate for the rear shock since the PRO-LINK suspension is already progressive but the front is more of a matter of personal preference.
Straight rate springs will be firmer feeling and you'll get more feedback from the road. If you are a fast rider going through a lot of twisties dragging your knees you will probably prefer the greater feel for the straight rate springs give you.
Progressive rate springs will compress easier for small stuff and get stiffer for larger bumps. This makes the ride smoother but you won't feel as much feedback from the front end. If you want a smoother ride, say for touring or you ride in the dirt a lot you might like like progressive springs better.
Either way, gold valves will make a big difference on the NC.
*edit* You will get some diving of the front end with progressive springs.

I bought Race Tech springs for my VFR but I think I might go with progressives on my NC700X.
The NC is way undersprung for me, OEM seems ti be aimed at people below 175 lbs.

I just put the Emulators in today. Blue spring at 3 turns, 6 holes in the dampening rod and waiting for 15w oil to show up tomorrow. Has anyone drilled additional holes in the emulators? They listed it as an option. Fill u in in a day or 2 with my thoughts.

IronButt84 said:

I just put the Emulators in today. Blue spring at 3 turns, 6 holes in the dampening rod and waiting for 15w oil to show up tomorrow. Has anyone drilled additional holes in the emulators? They listed it as an option. Fill u in in a day or 2 with my thoughts.

Click to expand...

I set mine at 2 turns on the spring, and one extra hole in each emulator, for a total of 3 holes in each emulator. 10w oil. I like my suspension set for touring. I weigh 165# before gearing up, and always ride the NC solo. It's by no means too soft for me at these settings.

Greg.

Well yesterday I put it back on the road. I aimed for every manhole cover I spotted and driveway entrances with a ledge. It's definitely better, I better but the 15w oil is tough for me to comprehend. What I don't know is if this would be the right set-up for dirt roads so I'll have to track one of them down and give it a try. I'm heading out to Utah next month and I'd like to get this settled here. Stay Tuned!

IronButt84 said:

I just put the Emulators in today. Blue spring at 3 turns, 6 holes in the dampening rod and waiting for 15w oil to show up tomorrow. Has anyone drilled additional holes in the emulators? They listed it as an option. Fill u in in a day or 2 with my thoughts.

Click to expand...

bonnielover said:

Gene,
What kind of improvements did you notice? I suppose the Ohlin firmed up the rear a bit? I've noticed a couple times with hard downshifts to 2nd or 1st, I've gotten the rear to skip sideways. Maybe the Ohlin would keep the rear a little more planted in this situation?

I put progressives 440s on the rear of my 2003 sportster and progressives/race techs in the front. Of course, that handled like a dog with stock suspension. The improvement in the front on the sportster was getting rid of the dive on braking, and much more confidence in high speed cornering. The one thing my Sportster could have used was a fork brace. There were some ramps that I take at 75+ where I felt like the front was twisting a bit on uneven pavement. I think the lighter weight, and maybe lower cog of the NC700 puts less twisting stress on the front end.

Regards.
Paul

Click to expand...

Your most likely skipping sideway when downshifting to 2nd or 1st because you're either not modulating the clutch properly or blipping downshift properly. This is commonly seen in beginner and intermediate track day riders. The rear wheel skips sideways because of the back torque produced.

I can guarantee if you learn and perfect either clutch modulate and/or blip downshift, you will eliminate rear wheel hop no matter what speed you coming from.

The other possibility of it skipping sideways is because the slow down of the bike is so drastic it throws the bike foward and compresses the forks so much and actually lifts the back end up. Again, the biggest and easiest cure for this is clutch modulation and/or blipping downshifting. The second cause would be suspension, but it would more of the springs in the forks being too light for you more than compression settings.

Granted, Racetech Emulators would be a good improvement over the stock setup and mimics cartridge forks really well...so I would definitely get them. (My Ninja 250 racebike has them). If you do the labor yourself you will save a lot more money. Just be sure you have access to a drill press so when you put holes on your damper rod they are as perfect as can be.

670cc said:

The stock Honda oil is supposedly a 10 weight oil. I used Belray brand 10w fork oil filled to the same level as the Honda manual specifies.

If you wanted more advice, or perhaps oil options based on your weight or ride preferences, you can probably contact Racetech and ask.

Greg

Click to expand...

FYI, Belray weight oil when compared to other brands is equivalent to 15W. Belray tends to run heavier than labelled. So essentially you are already putting 15W in there (when measuring true viscosity). The opposite holds true with Torco. Torco runs lighter than labelled. I run Torco Fork oil on all my bikes and for my race bike, I actually have to use Torco 20W since its equivalent to majority's 15W.

I actually have a spreadsheet of all the different known brands of Fork Oil with their Viscosity Ratings. They are listed numerically matching by true viscosity. If anyone wants it, PM me and I can email the spreadsheet or PDF Copy.

Daboo said:

What's wrong with the OEM suspension? I'm asking the question because I don't have one yet to know for myslef. The improved suspension over what I currently ride would be the biggest reason I'd buy one.

If I had to spend another thousand for an acceptable suspension, then I'd probably skip the purchase entirely.

Chris

Click to expand...

As people note, it's on the harsh side with sharp bumps. It mostly doesn't bother me except for bumpy turns in intersections. I'll be doing some upgrades over the winter. It's not "oh man this is awful," more like, "hmmm, this could be better."