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First gear clunk question

michaelks

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Gear shifting has become much better after i added Militec-1 to the oil. Really quite acceptable compared to the noises i had before. But, the first gear clunk won't go away, and it's loud enough to be embarrassing at traffic lights. So i'm wondering if maybe lowering the idle rpm would improve things, at least until break-in is complete. So could someone please point me to the idle screw (still could not find the service manual on line), and i'd also like to know what the prescribed idle rpm is (maybe mine's too fast) and also how low can i set it, thanks in advance.
 
Gear shifting has become much better after i added Militec-1 to the oil. Really quite acceptable compared to the noises i had before. But, the first gear clunk won't go away, and it's loud enough to be embarrassing at traffic lights. So i'm wondering if maybe lowering the idle rpm would improve things, at least until break-in is complete. So could someone please point me to the idle screw (still could not find the service manual on line), and i'd also like to know what the prescribed idle rpm is (maybe mine's too fast) and also how low can i set it, thanks in advance.

The idle spec is 1200 +/- 100 RPM. There is no idle speed screw. The system uses an idle air control valve that is non-adjustable. Are you sure that your clutch is properly adjusted?
 
Gear shifting has become much better after i added Militec-1 to the oil. Really quite acceptable compared to the noises i had before. But, the first gear clunk won't go away, and it's loud enough to be embarrassing at traffic lights. So i'm wondering if maybe lowering the idle rpm would improve things, at least until break-in is complete. So could someone please point me to the idle screw (still could not find the service manual on line), and i'd also like to know what the prescribed idle rpm is (maybe mine's too fast) and also how low can i set it, thanks in advance.

As already mentioned, the computer controls the idle speed and you can't change it. I agree the clunk is annoying, but it's no bother for me because I never use neutral. I never shift the bike from neutral to first with the engine running. The bike is always started in first gear. At traffic lights I always keep the bike in gear.

Greg
 
As already mentioned, the computer controls the idle speed and you can't change it. I agree the clunk is annoying, but it's no bother for me because I never use neutral. I never shift the bike from neutral to first with the engine running. The bike is always started in first gear. At traffic lights I always keep the bike in gear.

Greg

May I ask Why??
 
To be honest, it's my first Honda. I know they are famous because the first gear clunk, but I have never owned a bike so "clunky". No matter how I adjust the cluch, the 1st gear clunks. Even the old Bultacos and Montesas were much better in this area, not to speak about my loyal XT. Anyway I believe the fully sinthetic Castrol oil doesn't help.
 
Lee, that's interesting, since on the Ten there was an idle adjust screw (albeit terribly difficult to get at). So the FI systems are different for honda bikes i guess. Yes, the clutch lever has the recommended play.

670cc, wouldn't keeping the bike in gear during the minutes some lights stay red wear out the clutch faster ? Some people say no because the disks are separated with the lever pulled, so there's no friction. Anyway, doing this for some time might reduce the drag that causes the clunk, who knows.

duk2n, yours too...i wonder how many of us have this problem, maybe there's something that can be done about it. Or maybe it's a faulty assembly of the disks and plates ? It's easy to get that wrong, and if you're a 17 year old apprentice with plugs blasting in your ears and it's friday...
 
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I also have a slight gear clunk when dropping down into first.. however, when I am moving and drop down to first approaching a stop it is much worse than if i'm idling in neutral and drop down into first.
 
May I ask Why??
Don't they teach this over there? On another forum with UK riders this came up. It is good practice to have the bike in gear so you can immediately move if another vehicle threatens collision. If there is a long line of vehicles and you are not the last in line then it doesn't matter so much but if you are sitting there exposed to the front, side, or back you might need to move in a hurry.
 
May I ask Why??
Don't they teach this over there? On another forum with UK riders this came up. It is good practice to have the bike in gear so you can immediately move if another vehicle threatens collision. If there is a long line of vehicles and you are not the last in line then it doesn't matter so much but if you are sitting there exposed to the front, side, or back you might need to move in a hurry.
 
My thoughts RE: leaving the bike in gear... Panicking and trying to move out of the way could easily lead to more trouble. I'd rather the bike have the ability to roll on its own, rather than stall and fall should my hand get knocked off the clutch.

A las.. I am an evil lane splitter, so I'm always fairly safe in the middle if stopped. haha.
 
To be honest, it's my first Honda. I know they are famous because the first gear clunk, but I have never owned a bike so "clunky". No matter how I adjust the cluch, the 1st gear clunks. Even the old Bultacos and Montesas were much better in this area, not to speak about my loyal XT. Anyway I believe the fully sinthetic Castrol oil doesn't help.
You should try a BMW sometime if you think the NC is clunky. Or any long stroke V twin.
 
My thoughts RE: leaving the bike in gear... Panicking and trying to move out of the way could easily lead to more trouble. I'd rather the bike have the ability to roll on its own, rather than stall and fall should my hand get knocked off the clutch.

A las.. I am an evil lane splitter, so I'm always fairly safe in the middle if stopped. haha.
Yeah, I see your point. If you had to you could hop off and push it out of harm's way. Who needs an engine for that?
 
Again the clunk is because you have straight cut gear dogs and when there is a major difference between the engine speed and the speed of the gear being engaged, when you push down on the shifter if the dogs don't happen to be "just" correctly lined up they will slide around the face of the gear then fall into the next openings they come to with a distinct "clunk". Ways to deal with it are:1. a quick stab down of the shifter allows for more positive engagement, 2. a slight push forward as you shift the down to get the driving and driven gear closer to speed (not recommended because your pushing and trying to shift, could end up falling over). 3. heaver oil which masks the sound of the clunk, with some 90wt you might not hear it at all ( of course your bike will only run for a minute or so before it seizes parts) 4. Learn to live with it because as many others have said, its not that bad on the NC's I've had Suzuki's that you could hear a half a block away with a crunchy clunk. Don't worry as the edges of the dogs wear they sometimes get quiter....sometimes not.
 
Compared to a Wing, the NC clunk is nothing :D

4. Learn to live with it because as many others have said, its not that bad on the NC's I've had Suzuki's that you could hear a half a block away with a crunchy clunk.

Yep, the clunk on my NC is nothing compared to the Bandit 1250 I sold. It slammed happily into first for 60k miles without any problem.

trey
 
My understanding of the neutral to first gear clunk:
With a multidisk wet clutch there is always a certain amount of drag across the clutch plates due to the plates being bathed in engine oil. So when you pull in the clutch lever and the bike is in neutral the mainshaft of the transmission is still moving ever so slightly due to this drag. This is similar when you see a bike on the center stand and it is running in neutral but the rear wheel is still moving slightly. Since the mainshaft is moving slightly when you select first gear the dogs on the gears line up and the mainshaft stops, thus the clunk. I had a R1200GS that didn't clunk at all since it has a single plate dry clutch which would allow the engine and transmission to disengage fully, no drag across a multidisc wet clutch. That bike didn't clunk at all and I hated it. I've always used the clunk as a audible and tactile feedback to let me know the bike was in gear. On the GS when selecting first from neutral I was always looking down at the gear indicator to make sure I was in gear since I could never tell. Plus without the mainshaft spinning slightly I would run into the situation a lot where the trans dogs would line up and you couldn't get the bike into gear and would have to start rolling the bike until they lined up and dropped into first gear. Nerve racking when you are sitting in traffic and want to get away from all the cagers when the light turns green.

In summary, neutral to first clunks are awesome.
 
You are correct sir, the multi plate wet clutch does have a small amount of drag across the plates, thus the differential in the speeds in the driving and driven gear. I didn't mention it because I didn't want to add too much information not directly related to this bike and it's wet multi plate system. Dry clutches do fully disengage, they have to with no cooling oil. The problem I have is the rattle, I had a Ducati that every time you pulled in the clutch it sounded like there were a fist full of loose screws in the clutch basket, just awful.
 
On the GS when selecting first from neutral I was always looking down at the gear indicator to make sure I was in gear since I could never tell. Plus without the mainshaft spinning slightly I would run into the situation a lot where the trans dogs would line up and you couldn't get the bike into gear and would have to start rolling the bike until they lined up and dropped into first gear. Nerve racking when you are sitting in traffic and want to get away from all the cagers when the light turns green.

The way I deal with this on my BMW is to let the clutch out slightly as I push down on the shifter lever. That way I create a bit of relative motion to help with seating the gear and creating the comforting "clunk" so I know I am leaving the stop light with everyone else.

ETA: I am aware of the MSF "poised for action" guidance and generally adhere if I am first in line at a traffic signal and not tired or sore. On long trips, traffic signals are a ready opportunity for a stretch break.
 
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Don't they teach this over there? On another forum with UK riders this came up. It is good practice to have the bike in gear so you can immediately move if another vehicle threatens collision. If there is a long line of vehicles and you are not the last in line then it doesn't matter so much but if you are sitting there exposed to the front, side, or back you might need to move in a hurry.

Not to my knowledge but then I was brought up on cable clutches and the thought of what might happen if the cable snaps (not unknown on older bikes) whilst in gear is not a good one
 
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