need advise-battery tender on lithium battery

[gary]

hi,
i have recently installed the noco lithium battery in my 21 nc.
i'm heading north for 5 months and am concerned about leaving the battery on a tender as i hear of so many issues with charging lithium batteries.
this is my first experience with lithium.
i have my up north bikes with regular batteries on tenders 7 months unattended. have done so for over 30 years without issue.
i would appreciate info on the risks of leaving lithium unattended for 5 or so months.
another option i'm considering is disconnecting the positive terminal for the season .
thank you in advance for your expertise and advice.
gary

 

[NC Mick]

Would a plug in timer work, the digital ones have various settings.
You could just charge once a week for instance for a specified time.
Maybe get the Noco charger, the Noco 1 does lithium and doesn't cost too much.

 

[670cc]

hi,
i have recently installed the noco lithium battery in my 21 nc.
i'm heading north for 5 months and am concerned about leaving the battery on a tender as i hear of so many issues with charging lithium batteries.
this is my first experience with lithium.
i have my up north bikes with regular batteries on tenders 7 months unattended. have done so for over 30 years without issue.
i would appreciate info on the risks of leaving lithium unattended for 5 or so months.
another option i'm considering is disconnecting the positive terminal for the season .
thank you in advance for your expertise and advice.
gary

I won’t know what “so many issues” you refer to, unless you specify. Since self discharge rates on lithium (NOCO chemistry is LiFePO4) are low, and they can tolerate deeper discharge compared to lead acid, you can simply disconnect the battery in the motorcycle if you have concerns. The battery will be fine. A LiFePO4 battery requires less “baby sitting“ than lead acid. The whole tender thing is mainly to address warm temperature lead acid battery self discharge (and parasitic loads). Constant charging of a lithium battery is really unnecessary. If you are disconnecting a battery cable, I suggest removing the negative instead of the positive, for safety reasons.

On the other hand, with the BMS monitoring built into the NOCO battery case, and using an appropriate charger with lithium setting, I see no reason to be any more concerned about constant charger connection to a LiFePO4 battery vs a lead acid. It should all be automatic.

My next NC battery will probably be a NOCO. I have 100 amp-hour LiFePO4 batteries in my small camper and boat, and they have been trouble free, light weight, and require no maintenance

 

[gary]

Would a plug in timer work, the digital ones have various settings.
You could just charge once a week for instance for a specified time.
Maybe get the Noco charger, the Noco 1 does lithium and doesn't cost too much.

thank you. good suggestion on the timer.
i have a lithium specific battery tender that i purchased when i bought the battery .

 

[gary]

I won’t know what “so many issues” you refer to, unless you specify. Since self discharge rates on lithium (NOCO chemistry is LiFePO4) are low, and they can tolerate deeper discharge compared to lead acid, you can simply disconnect the battery in the motorcycle if you have concerns. The battery will be fine. A LiFePO4 battery requires less “baby sitting“ than lead acid. The whole tender thing is mainly to address warm temperature lead acid battery self discharge (and parasitic loads). Constant charging of a lithium battery is really unnecessary. If you are disconnecting a battery cable, I suggest removing the negative instead of the positive, for safety reasons.

On the other hand, with the BMS monitoring built into the NOCO battery case, and using an appropriate charger with lithium setting, I see no reason to be any more concerned about constant charger connection to a LiFePO4 battery vs a lead acid. It should all be automatic.

My next NC battery will probably be a NOCO. I have 100 amp-hour LiFePO4 batteries in my small camper and boat, and they have been trouble free, light weight, and require no maintenance

thank you for the reply
sorry. the issues i was referring to is how i hear of lithium batteries catching fire or excessively heating up during charging.
my 2021 nc stock battery died here in florida after just 2 years and that included being on a battery tender for the 5 months i was not here.
my batteries up north have typically lasted 5 plus years. (always keep them on tenders in the off season)
new to lithium and trying to learn how to maximize their useful life.
your information has been informative and helpful

 

[670cc]

thank you for the reply
sorry. the issues i was referring to is how i hear of lithium batteries catching fire or excessively heating up during charging.
my 2021 nc stock battery died here in florida after just 2 years and that included being on a battery tender for the 5 months i was not here.
my batteries up north have typically lasted 5 plus years. (always keep them on tenders in the off season)
new to lithium and trying to learn how to maximize their useful life.
your information has been informative and helpful

I believe the LiFePO4 chemistry used of late has greatly mitigated the occasional thermal runaway fires we heard of with earlier lithium battery designs.

Most lithium battery packs, including the NOCO, have internal electronics to prevent over charging, discharging, etc. There is more to them than just a dumb battery, like a lead acid.

If ”up north” means cooler temperatures, then lead acid batteries will last longer, in my experience. I live in a moderate climate, and usually get an average 8 years from lead acids. Down south, like Florida, I would expect short lead acid battery life. Switching to lithium, I hope to get 10+ years life.

 

[Possummanj]

I plan to get a lithium battery for my other bikes. 2022 Himalayan which seem to have notoriously lousy batteries and often need restarting a couple times before warming up

 

[GregC]

I installed NOCO LiFePO Battery a year ago. Have had it on a Optimate tender all the time with zero issues and it fires up first time all the time.

 

[gary]

I installed NOCO LiFePO Battery a year ago. Have had it on a Optimate tender all the time with zero issues and it fires up first time all the time.

thank you . good to know.

 

[gary]

I believe the LiFePO4 chemistry used of late has greatly mitigated the occasional thermal runaway fires we heard of with earlier lithium battery designs.

Most lithium battery packs, including the NOCO, have internal electronics to prevent over charging, discharging, etc. There is more to them than just a dumb battery, like a lead acid.

If ”up north” means cooler temperatures, then lead acid batteries will last longer, in my experience. I live in a moderate climate, and usually get an average 8 years from lead acids. Down south, like Florida, I would expect short lead acid battery life. Switching to lithium, I hope to get 10+ years life.

yes, up north - new hampshire and rhode island.
thanks again.

 

[Veliksam]

I've been using the X2Power Lithium (LiFePO4) for more than 1 year with no issues. Comes with a 36 month warranty and picked it up at my local batteries+ store, they currently have a 15% off coupon. I also bought a lithium specific battery tender from Amazon, the tender brand is Battery Tender lol
X2Power Lithium
Battery Tender

 

[Rydinon]

I would not put a charger on a timer. Whenever I power up my Optimate battery charger/maintainer, it immediately goes to charge, then shuts that down if the battery is fully charged. Since most timers are 24 hour based, you might be pulsing your battery every day. It does not sound like a good idea to me.

One thing I don't understand that happens a lot on these forums. Many of us have questions about technical products and ask questions about them. The answers range from completely wrong, simply misinformed, unknowledgeable but reasonable guesses, to well informed, knowledgeable, and expert. The questioner then has to sort these out and decide which one(s) to believe based on our command of the english language, spelling ability, the width of our smile, and probably a few factors I've not thought of. Why don't we call the manufacturers? In this case, I would seek out the maker of the maintainer, as well as the battery's customer service folks. Yes, many of them are not only hard to reach, but some know less than a 2 year old infant and will read back to you what is on their computer screen. However, most have someone who can answer serious questions about their product.

I've read time and again to remove the battery from the car/bike for long term storage and connect it to a battery maintainer. I hope your lead acid chargers are not 30 years old. My Shorai battery wanted the Shorai charger which had a multi conductor cable that plugged into a mate on the battery. It measured the charge in each cell and charged each one fully. Clipping my accumate to the two big terminals on the battery would NOT have done what the Shorai charger did though it would have been adequate. For long term storage (3-4 months +) Shorai wanted the owner to discharge the battery to 60% and let it sit. The charger did this in 'storage mode'. Read the instruction booklet that came with your battery.

Since lead batteries are cheaper, I went back to them because the advantages of a Lithium battery were not significant enough for me. BTW, batteries are like light bulbs - nobody can tell you how long any given example will last. The quoted lifetime is an average of a large number of them that have died. YMMV

 

[gary]

thank you for the reply

 

[GregC]

“One thing I don't understand that happens a lot on these forums. Many of us have questions about technical products and ask questions about them. The answers range from completely wrong, simply misinformed, unknowledgeable but reasonable guesses, to well informed, knowledgeable, and expert.”

Because asking a question on an Internet forum is like asking the question in a crowded bar - you’ll get the full range of responses

 

[Rydinon]

“One thing I don't understand that happens a lot on these forums. Many of us have questions about technical products and ask questions about them. The answers range from completely wrong, simply misinformed, unknowledgeable but reasonable guesses, to well informed, knowledgeable, and expert.”

Because asking a question on an Internet forum is like asking the question in a crowded bar - you’ll get the full range of responses

I think you misunderstood my comment. What I don't get is why folks ask these questions on forums (yeah, i have to admit, I do it too. Ask first, research later) instead of going to the horse's mouth. Why don't we all (me included here) call customer service First, and if they are unsatisfactory, or the wait is 12 hours, then go to the forum. I have gotten excellent information from some mfrs cust service people (and some garbage answers, too).

 

[gary]

I think you misunderstood my comment. What I don't get is why folks ask these questions on forums (yeah, i have to admit, I do it too. Ask first, research later) instead of going to the horse's mouth. Why don't we all (me included here) call customer service First, and if they are unsatisfactory, or the wait is 12 hours, then go to the forum. I have gotten excellent information from some mfrs cust service people (and some garbage answers, too).

just to clarify. i did that FIRST and got the exact reply from NOCO i expected.
still felt uncertain and asked here as i've read knowledgeable responses to a variety of subjects.
i also rely on my 55 years of riding/wrenching (no experience with lithium) to filter the replies and take appropriate action.